[pheasantmaster]

This topic is visited on here SO often. I usually see people posting that if you have an adjustable rib and and adjustable comb, the comb changes POI. And I disagree.

Adjust the rib (if possible) for the POI that you want. Many even have marks or tell in the owners manual what rib setting with give what POI (with a margin of error). Then adjust the comb so that the sight picture and rib/sight alignment are what you want to see.

Personally I like my gun to shoot about 80/20. So I set the rib, shoot the pattern board with my gun in a solid rest/gun-vise and the beads lined up on the pattern board so that the beads are "snowmanned". My head never even touches the comb for this. I treat it like I am sighting in a benchrest rifle. If the pattern/POI is not 80/20 I adjust the rib up or down to get it there, and repeat as necessary.

Once the POI is set with the rib and you are happy with it, adjust the comb so that the gin fits you and you get the rib/bead sight picture you want. I always tell students and others I am helping to mount the gun with their eyes closed. adjust their head, shoulder, EVERYTHING about their gun mount with eyes closed so that they get the gun perfectly where they want it and it feels best. THEN open their eyes. If they are not lined up on the rib and beads like they want, adjust the comb a little and try again... with eyes closed to start.

If you do it with your eyes open when you first start, you will just naturally put your head down so you are correctly on the rib, and may not be in your natural/neutral mount position.

Just my thoughts, not sure they are even worth a penny, but... lol


As an added thought... Once everything is set up like this (POI what you want, gun mount comfortable and neutral, rib/bead alignment what you want) you can just about forget about the beads and rib then. Just 100% mount the gun the same every time and follow the target.

That makes no sense.
Glad it works for you.

 

[out of $]

For the original question:
If your comb is parallel to your rib the beads will look the same, if your head is forward or back from the position that is the norm.

 

[mako72401]

That makes no sense.
Glad it works for you.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Tech Writer Jeff]

Personally I like my gun to shoot about 80/20. So I set the rib, shoot the pattern board with my gun in a solid rest/gun-vise and the beads lined up on the pattern board so that the beads are "snowmanned". My head never even touches the comb for this. If the pattern/POI is not 80/20 I adjust the rib up or down to get it there, and repeat as necessary.

Once the POI is set with the rib and you are happy with it, adjust the comb so that the gin fits you and you get the rib/bead sight picture you want.

Mako, I think the following is where @pheasantmaster takes issue with your method:

You said you shoot at a pattern board and adjust your adjustable rib in order to get an 80/20 POI with the beads "snowmanned". [It's unusual that you do this without your face even touching the stock (just hovering back there behind the rib), but OK, that's alright with me. The important point is that you took the time to get a specific POI with a specific eye position/bead alignment behind the rib.

But later, away from the pattern board when you finally put your face on the comb, you adjust your comb so you "get the rib/bead sight picture you want". That makes it sound like you might set it to something other than "snowmanned". If so, what was the point to the whole exercise?

 

[entropy]

Many shooters align the beads during the mount and adjust as needed. Then when the target is in the air, they look at the target, not the beads, or needs.

Then there's others that never look at the beads, theory is once the gun fits you it fits you and once you look at the beads, you'll go back to beads, as in bead checking.

Use what's best for you.

To the OP, if all things are equal, especially cheek pressure on the comb, not sure how you raise the comb and have the same picture. If you raise the comb, you're raising the impact.

Because the eye of the shooting shoulder is the rear sight. The front bead is, of course the front sight. Raising the comb raises the point of impact. Unless the rib is adjustable, the front sight does not move so that is one of three ways to alter the point of impact. The other two are to raise or lower the eye by head/ neck/ cheek placement against the comb, and to use a non adjustable Monte Carlo stock or an adjustable buttplate with additional drop on it.
Adjustments to sights always cause change in point of impact. However, it is possible to return the net effect back to the original "feel".

 

[AusAmateur]

Man, I’m glad I started shooting before reading this thread. If I were a newbie who’d just read this I’d sell my guns and take up cribbage.

 

[Grizz56]

Man, I’m glad I started shooting before reading this thread. If I were a newbie who’d just read this I’d sell my guns and take up cribbage.

How about pickleball??

 

[jk80]

People need to get past all this stacking the beads crap. Why care how much space is between the beads as long as the gun shoots where you want it. A few on here think it's the holy grail must do. Probably tell you length of pull is right if it fits in the crook of your elbow. Just clubhouse bs.

 

[porthos]

what jk80 said!!!!

 

[V10]

People need to get past all this stacking the beads crap. Why care how much space is between the beads as long as the gun shoots where you want it. A few on here think it's the holy grail must do. Probably tell you length of pull is right if it fits in the crook of your elbow. Just clubhouse bs.

It would be nice to go back in time to the first guy who put a mid bead on a shotgun barrel and smack him upside the head with the barrel.

 

[ammo]

why would anyone want to shoot at a pattern board "to know where your gun is shooting" i want to know where my gun is shooting on a target. that is why you should shoot targets from post 3 with the trap locked on straightaways...

Could I be there when you tell that to Harlan Campbell?

 

[Oregunner]

Because you can’t read where your gun is shooting by trying to read breaks. 😀
Google Neil Winston.

 

[mako72401]

Mako, I think the following is where @pheasantmaster takes issue with your method:

You said you shoot at a pattern board and adjust your adjustable rib in order to get an 80/20 POI with the beads "snowmanned". [It's unusual that you do this without your face even touching the stock (just hovering back there behind the rib), but OK, that's alright with me. The important point is that you took the time to get a specific POI with a specific eye position/bead alignment behind the rib.

But later, away from the pattern board when you finally put your face on the comb, you adjust your comb so you "get the rib/bead sight picture you want". That makes it sound like you might set it to something other than "snowmanned". If so, what was the point to the whole exercise?

Sorry, guess it seems obvious to me that if I am going to get the POI that I want with snowmanned beads, then I am going to get my head on the gun so the beads are the same.

 

[AustinF]

Man, I’m glad I started shooting before reading this thread. If I were a newbie who’d just read this I’d sell my guns and take up cribbage.

I know what you mean. When I started shooting sporting clays 20 years ago I had a 20 gauge New Haven 500 pump. Had a great time and decided to not work as hard, so I purchased a Browning Citori O/U. All I knew was the Browning could be a lifetime shotgun able to handle 1,000’s of rounds. I look at other Browning O/U models and the Citori felt the best. I didn’t know a thing about POI, adjustable combs, ribs and LOP, two beads, shell velocity, handicap etc. I guess ignorance is bliss. Shotgun shooting is the thing I do that I enjoy the most. It has been interesting reading. I appreciate all the input.

 

[Matthew]

I’d sure hate to be the new kid on the block and try to decipher some of the advice given.

 

[V10]

I’d sure hate to be the new kid on the block and try to decipher some of the advice given.

Maybe.

Hopefully the smart ones will figure it out. If not, I'll summarize:



The big error people make is in thinking that "stacking the beads", or having an "80/20" pattern is the goal.

Those are consequences, not goals. The goal is to break targets. Set the gun up to break targets.

What your "sight picture" looks like, or what your pattern "percentage" is doesn't matter.

All that matters is whether your gun set up allows you to consistently break targets to the best of your ability.

If you then want to figure out what that set up "looks like" on a pattern board so you can return to it with a new gun, or after losing or gaining weight, or whatever . . . fine. Knock yourself out.

But we see too many people here who start out where their goal is "stacking the beads" or "shooting an 80/20 pattern." It's the old "cart before the horse" situation.

It's already been mentioned, and I've mentioned it a ton of times myself, to "set up" a gun is very simple:

Lock the trap to throw a straight away from post three. Stand there and shoot targets from the 16 and adjust your comb until you are smoke balling the target.

There. You're done. For singles. Now do the same thing from your handicap yardage. If you need to change the comb height at your yardage then you have a decision to make: either use shims to change between events, or learn to shoot singles with your handicap adjustment (it can be done).

Then, as I've mentioned, if you want to "document" that set up on the pattern board, have at it.

But whatever that set up is, it is a consequence of adjusting your gun to break targets.




Then Sharpie your beads black and stop worrying about the "snowman."

 

[Matthew]

No argument here V10. I learned early on what to do. I shoot with current and former state champions. When he was still with us, I had conversations with Neil Winston. I have my guns set to my liking and I don’t worry about the stack. I feel sorry for the new folks that see so much incorrect advice. If they would do as you say, they would be a lot better off.

 

[pheasantmaster]

No argument here V10. I learned early on what to do. I shoot with current and former state champions. When he was still with us, I had conversations with Neil Winston. I have my guns set to my liking and I don’t worry about the stack. I feel sorry for the new folks that see so much incorrect advice. If they would do as you say, they would be a lot better off.

Those with the least experience and knowledge always speak the loudest!

 

[nickolas1]

People need to get past all this stacking the beads crap. Why care how much space is between the beads as long as the gun shoots where you want it. A few on here think it's the holy grail must do. Probably tell you length of pull is right if it fits in the crook of your elbow. Just clubhouse bs.

The question then is how do you make sure your gun is straight and square to your body before calling for a target???
You may be lucky the gun fits you perfectly. But for us humans it is a good double check that everthing is good before shooting. Space between the beads is another way to check POI on the target, just so u know. It does vary among us tall people. For me an inch between beads gives me an 80/20 lead on the bird.

 

[rswelch]

• Ignore the fact that the OP even mentioned the beads. They're not really relevant to his question.
• Ignore the fact that you shouldn't be focusing on the beads when actually shooting. That's also not relevant to the OP's question.
• OP was simply asking about moving the comb to a different position. Beads or not, rib or not, the OP simply needs a little guidance on the reasons why shooters move the comb, and he needs guidance on when the shooter must be willing to accept a different eye position in 3-dimensional space behind the gun.
• OP seemed to be claiming that moving the comb doesn't change POI. He literally said so in his initial post (see quote below, empasis added):
• So, the real topic of this thread is that the OP seems unaware that moving the comb (and your eye along with it) for POI purposes is actually something shooters do. The presence (or absence) of beads is independent of this concept.
• Comb movement for stock fit reasons vs comb movement for an intentional POI change. Already answered by several folks.

In a past life long forgotten, Boeing tech writer here. Your response is spot on. I don't understand why the haters come out in these forums for what seems the sole purpose of bashing someone who is asking for help in understanding the why/when/what to do something.