I have loaded a few hundred rounds so far with High Gun powder. I love the powder, and now prefer this powder over the same Clays powder, you have enjoyed loading for years and years. I may not be going back to Clays powder myself??? I do use a standard Mec charge bar. I use newer rubber and brass washers and have zero powder migration. Because of the smaller nature of the powder itself. My powder drops are even more consistent than they were loading with Clays powder. I have been loading some 1 1/8 oz. loads at appox. 1,235 fps for my longest shots only at sporting clays. Shots that are beyond 50 yards. I love these loads. I have no idea if your charge bar will leak with this powder or not??? But I can tell you, that if you use a factory Mec bar with new rubber and brass, you'll be fine. Good Luck to Ya. break em all Jeff

 

I have just purchased some High Gun. I have been using CB6100-12 in Gold Medal and CB1100-12 in AA CF hulls for 1 ounce loads. These combinations worked great with my previous powder. Since switching to High Gun I have had problems with stack height. Any suggestions on wads that will work better in these hulls would be appreciated.

Silverblade

 

I have loaded a couple jugs of it for 7/8 th and 1 oz loads. Meters very well and I am not getting any powder leakage loading on a Mec 9000 with standard bar. It has worked well enough for me to purchase two more 8# jugs recently.

 

May I ask what weight charge you guys are throwing with the High Gun? My standard charge with Clay's was (is) 16.5 grains with a 1-1/8 ounce of #8's. I think the velocity is right around 1150 FPS. I would like to step that up a bit with the High Gun.

 

For the tested load I am trying to match, The tested load shows dropping 18.1 grains of HG powder in a STS hull with 1 1/8 oz load of lead shot. Will yield pressures at a average of 9120 psi with a average speed of 1,232 fps. I am dropping 18.2 grains of powder with a #20 Mec bushing. Oops, almost forgot to tell you to use CB-4100 wads and cheddite primers. Good Luck to Ya.

PS--I found the Lightning wads a big PITA to load. So I will be switching over to the figure 8 wads next time I reload any 12 ga. shells again. I would normally load the AA wads, But they max out at 1,200 fps. break em all Jeff

 

I think you will need to use a 1 oz wad to get a good crimp.

 

Yep

 

Do you know approximately on a volumetric basis, are Clay's and High Gun similar? I would like to not have to change wads, or have to readjust crimping dies.

The load data on the High Gun jug states with a Win. AA case, and a 1-1/8th ounce AA wad, you can throw up to 18.4 grains and get 1,255 FPS. That is very similar to Clay's.

 

Do you know approximately on a volumetric basis, are Clay's and High Gun similar? I would like to not have to change wads, or have to readjust crimping dies.

Well that ain't gonna happen, especially since you only need #20 bushing for High Gun.

 

If you are loading on a Mec my 34 bushing drops approx 18.2 grains of Clays. My 18 bushing drops 17.4 grains of High Gun. Hope this helps you get started and as always this is just for reference use your scale to pinpoint what bushing you need.

 

High Gun (Titegroup) is much denser than Clays. I've found to get appropriate stack height, I need to use a wad 1/8 smaller than specified. For example, I use a 7/8 oz wad for 1 oz loads.

 

You will need different wads. You will need a much smaller powder bushing.

 

I think you will need to use a 1 oz wad to get a good crimp.

You will need different wads.

Well that ain't gonna happen

I'm not trying to argue with you guys here, but if all that was true, why does Hodgdon list this load right on the jug? (It's the second load down from the top). Are you saying that load is bogus, and will not stack and crimp correctly? Something doesn't wash.

1-1/8th ounce shot - AA hull - WAA12 Wad - Winchester 209 Primer - 18.4 grains / 1,255 FPS

 

I'm not trying to argue with you guys here, but if all that was true, why does Hodgdon list this load right on the jug? (It's the second load down from the top). Are you saying that load is bogus, and will not stack and crimp correctly? Something doesn't wash.

1-1/8th ounce shot - AA hull - WAA12 Wad - Winchester 209 Primer - 18.4 grains / 1,255 FPS

You said you didn't want to change anything on your press to get that to work. I had to relieve most all the wad pressure and most of the final crimping pressure and also use AAHS casings because they have less volume than CF casings.

 

What's happening there is the Highgun is only taking up about 50% of the room/volume the Clays took up.

 

Things like having to vary wad pressure, and make powder weight adjustments are to be expected. I just don't want to have to change wads in order to get a decent crimp. I already have a case and a half, (close to 3,000) Claybuster 1-1/8th ounce, AA12 equivalent, (CB 1118) on hand.

Which, according to what Hodgdon has printed on the label of High Gun, should work. I'm just trying to verify before I buy any. I don't think this powder situation is going to get any better in the future. And may in fact get worse as time passes.

 

I just loaded some AA hulls, 1 /18 ounce of lead, 17 grains of Titegoup, using chedditte primers and CB-1118-12 wads.
After adjusting my wads pressure less ,they crimped perfectly.

 

By "AAHS" are you referring to "Double A Handicap Silver" case?

 

No those are the old compression formed.

AAHS are the latest ones produced the last 20 yrs. Real shiny with a base wad in bottom. Shiny red and dark grey.

 

I've loaded quite a lot of rounds with Titegroup/HighGun powder over the last couple years. I load 1 oz for trap. I'm dropping 17.4 grains using a MEC 17 bushing in a single stage 600 Jr. loader. For Rem Gun Club and older AACF hulls, I absolutely need to go down one wad size and use the grey 7/8 oz CB0178 wad. For the smaller capacity AAHS hulls, I can use either the CB1100 or CB8100 wads. I made no adj to my loader and the crimps are excellent. I haven't loaded 1 1/8 oz loads with that powder but would expect similar results in needing different wads depending on case capacity. Try the recipe on the jug using AAHS hulls and you will likely be ok. If/when you load Gun Clubs, try the 1 oz wads. The AAHS hulls will say HS on the case stamp.

 

I have found no difference in the AAHS red or Gray hull.

 

The gray and red on the left are the old compression formed one piece and the gray and red on the right are the new HS 2-piece with a base wad

 

All of my AA cases are marked "12" on the left, and "GA" on the right. Most are quite old. I don't understand why they ever got away from the one piece, compression formed hull? They were rugged as hell, and had tremendous reloadability.

 

Just so you know, not all of the "GA" marked hulls are Compression Formed!

The first 3-4 years of the newer HS (High Strength) some hulls still had the brass base stamped 12 GA

At first glance, the untrained eye won't notice the difference unless you look down in the hull or 'candle' it...

I have some that are damn near identical and from the same years' Grand that are both flavors.

The photo on the far Right was kinda tough to show but if you look closely the Left hull is an HS and the Right hull is a CF.

 

It's a great powder High Gun/Tight Group, but as is being pointed out, its density requires a smaller bushing than used with the flake powders and one size down wad for stack height; that is, use a 1 oz wad for 1 1/8, 7/8 for 1 oz, etc.

 

Not yet but that will soon change.

 

Yep about 30# so far

 

I'm going to hold off on buying any High Gun. There is simply too much contradiction going on about loading it. The jug states that you can successfully load 1-1/8th ounce in a standard AA-12 wad, (or Claybuster CB-1118), in a AA case, and achieve a correct stack and crimp height.

Yet many here say you cannot. I tend to believe people who have actually tried it by working with this powder. So for now I'll continue my hunt for 700X. I know that will stack and crimp correctly, because it is a flake powder just like Clay's.

And volumetrically it is very similar. What little difference there is can be made up for by varying charge weight and wad pressure, and not changing wads. After I use up my supply of Claybuster CB-1118 wads, then I can change over to most anything.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you guys here, but if all that was true, why does Hodgdon list this load right on the jug? (It's the second load down from the top). Are you saying that load is bogus, and will not stack and crimp correctly? Something doesn't wash.

1-1/8th ounce shot - AA hull - WAA12 Wad - Winchester 209 Primer - 18.4 grains / 1,255 FPS

Two items of relevance:
The selection of componets is safe regardless of how it crimps.
The selection of componets are readily available regardless of how it crimps.

That's good to know. For my purposes it doesn't matter. I was only concerned that they were 100% plastic. Because as I mentioned, I deprime and wash them before reloading. The only cases I use are AA, Remington STS or Nitro 27.

It actually does matter for you.

The changeover hull will have slightly less interior volume.
The changeover hull is also the one many users stated they had the basewad come loose and lodge in their barrel.

 

The changeover hull is also the one many users stated they had the basewad come loose and lodge in their barrel.

If that happens do you get some type of visual warning? For example, will just the brass end be leftover.... Or something that will set off an alarm bell?

 

How do you know that was caused by a stuck base wad from a AA hull? And not a drastic overload, or the wrong powder, or a dozen other reasons?

That gun came apart right at the chamber / receiver. Not further down the barrel, which is much more typical of wad and other barrel obstructions.

The fact is shotgun blow ups are all over the Internet. Without proper documentation accompanying what actually caused them, they're pretty much worthless.

The fact is, this is the first I've heard of these plastic base wads separating in AA hulls, and getting stuck in barrels. If it was any type of serious repetitive problem, it would be all over the Internet. And there would be recalls published everywhere.

Look at how many factory AA's are fired at the Grand, along with reloads of those same cases, at literally hundreds of other ATA shoots held across the country every weekend, year after year. All encompassing millions of rounds.

I have been shooting AA reloads for over 30+ years, and never had one hull separate. Split yes, they all do eventually. I'm not saying it can't happen. But with the amount of these shells and cases out there, it's not something that concerning.

 

The fact is, this is the first I've heard of these plastic base wads separating in AA hulls, and getting stuck in barrels.

Its old news. The fact remains that the Win. AAHS hulls are made the same way every other company in the world makes hulls today. With the exception of injection molded hulls that the Remington factory still uses. Its a one piece hull.

If your reloading with a Mec reloader??? You will never run into this issue. As all Mec reloaders install the primers with a tube that pushes the primer into the hull from the inside. Which makes it impossible for the base wad to be raised upward when the primer is installed into the hull. Now if you reload with a Spolar, or another brand of reloader that the machine holds onto the hull from the outside of the hull. Then uses a ram from the bottom to push the primer into the hull from the bottom. Then its possible to get a raised base wad. Since this machine does not hold the basewad in place, as the primer is installed!!! This can happen more often. As you try to reload the same hull 8-10 times. Now the Federal economy hulls are made the same way as the Win. AAHS hulls. All of the European shells are made this way. If you reload with a Mec reloader you can reload any hull without worry!!! I just saw a poster here trying to sell his Win. AAHS hulls for 6 cents a piece. He could not get buyers at this price. So he lowered his price to 5 cents each. They started to sell. But during the same week. I saw folks here pay 20 cents each for Rem. STS hulls. So now ask yourself which hull do you want to reload??? Now ask yourself which reloader you want buy??? You have solved your dilemma!!! Some folks are just funny. they will pay 5 grand for a reloader, so they have to pay 4 times more for the hulls. To save money so they can shoot their 2 grand browning shotgun. All to be able to reload at a fast rate of speed!!! Its impossible to reload a better shell, than the Mec. Sizemaster reloader produce. All you can do is reload the same quality of shell at a faster rate of speed. So just like a race car, its the need for speed!!!! break em all jeff

 

The fact is, this is the first I've heard of these plastic base wads separating in AA hulls, and getting stuck in barrels. If it was any type of serious repetitive problem, it would be all over the Internet. And there would be recalls published everywhere.

Your living under a rock or just in complete denial.

How do you know that was caused by a stuck base wad from a AA hull? And not a drastic overload, or the wrong powder, or a dozen other reasons?

Usually the base wad is laying close by. It also happens with factory loaded shells . Not just reloads.

I quit using any 12 gauge HSAA shells several years ago . After having to remove several base wads from barrels. Mostly factory loaded. Supposedly this issue has been fixed. But I still see it happen quite often.

 

Your living under a rock or just in complete denial. Usually the base wad is laying close by. It also happens with factory loaded shells . Not just reloads.

I quit using any 12 gauge HSAA shells several years ago . After having to remove several base wads from barrels. Mostly factory loaded. Supposedly this issue has been fixed. But I still see it happen quite often.

I said I'm not arguing that it doesn't happen. I'm saying it's not blowing up or damaging guns every time it does. And it certainly did not blow up the 870 in that photo. Since you live out in the bright sunshine, and not, "under a rock", how many have you seen come apart directly because of a loose AA base wad?

 

To each his own of what hulls a person reloads. I don’t want to take that chance. This is why I don’t reload the two piece AA,s.