I shoot the more conventional way, moving on the line with the target. I have been thinking of making a real effort to modify my style to the Harlan Campbell way of holding near the break point height and only moving left or right. Who out there has changed to or tried this method. What was your outcome and thoughts.
Mark425
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1. It obviously works for Mr. Campbell.
2. I never argue with what works.
3. Harlan also suggests a forward leaning stance which puts a bit more weight on your lead foot. That stance has never worked for me.
4. Another suggestion in Harlan's vids is 'leaning into the shot as the trigger gets pulled'. I couldn't fall face forward and hit the ground doing that.
5. All of this stuff works for Mr. Campbell and some of his students swear by it. What have you got to lose by trying?
sissy
2. I never argue with what works.
3. Harlan also suggests a forward leaning stance which puts a bit more weight on your lead foot. That stance has never worked for me.
4. Another suggestion in Harlan's vids is 'leaning into the shot as the trigger gets pulled'. I couldn't fall face forward and hit the ground doing that.
5. All of this stuff works for Mr. Campbell and some of his students swear by it. What have you got to lose by trying?
sissy
I am a one eyed shooter that has adopted a high gun hold. The high gun hold has helped me as it keeps me very patient to not move my gun until I see the bird. It has also given me a sense of not rushing to chase birds, like I had when I held on the house. Even though some birds come out from behind my barrel at extreme angles, I still feel a comfortable swing to the bird to break it.
I have found that if I hold to high on 1 and 5 (am righthanded, and am several feet to the right of the house on 5 and 1 foot outside the house on 1), so that the bird doesn't pass over my barrel but passes behind it, so that I see the bird, lose the bird, see the bird, I lose many of those by shooting over them.
I do like breaking my front leg so that it is not locked, but I don't bend the knee really.
I like changing stances, much like he shows in doubles.
As to the forward press towards the target...I do not do this on a regular basis, meaning it is not part of my routine. However, I have found it useful as a practice aid. When I feel as though my swings are not fluid, or I shoot over a few targets, then I shoot a few rounds doing the forward press after I call for the target. I have found that it forces me to swing from the hips and that it prevents me from throwing my muzzle up and shooting over.
Besides that stuff, I think it sucks.
Regards,
Chip Porter
I have found that if I hold to high on 1 and 5 (am righthanded, and am several feet to the right of the house on 5 and 1 foot outside the house on 1), so that the bird doesn't pass over my barrel but passes behind it, so that I see the bird, lose the bird, see the bird, I lose many of those by shooting over them.
I do like breaking my front leg so that it is not locked, but I don't bend the knee really.
I like changing stances, much like he shows in doubles.
As to the forward press towards the target...I do not do this on a regular basis, meaning it is not part of my routine. However, I have found it useful as a practice aid. When I feel as though my swings are not fluid, or I shoot over a few targets, then I shoot a few rounds doing the forward press after I call for the target. I have found that it forces me to swing from the hips and that it prevents me from throwing my muzzle up and shooting over.
Besides that stuff, I think it sucks.
Regards,
Chip Porter
I have been shooting Trap since 1961 and I think I'm too old to learn his style. I get into serious trouble with a tendency to crossfire when my barrel obscures my right eye's view of the target.
People are different and no method works for everyone. Harlan's video helped me though.
Last summer I was in a rough patch and hadn't shot a 25-straight in a couple months. But as soon as I bought Harlan's DVD and switched to a high gun I shot 25-24-25-23 on the first weekend (which is phenomenal for my modest skill level). I've been up and down since then but I'll never go back to a low gun and chasing targets. I'm not a one-eyed shooter but I do cross-fire, so I just put some Scotch tape over my left pupil and the high hold works great. I see the bird right out of the house with my peripheral vision. What's important to remember about the HIGH GUN is that YOU STILL HAVE TO ADJUST HOW HIGH. You can't just mindlessly hold three or four feet off the house every day and expect good scores. If the presentation is low or inconsistent, you need to adjust downward. If it's windy, you adjust if necessary. You also need to adjust your eye up/down as you adjust the vertical component of your hold points. Harlan explains this in his videos. It takes a few times to soak it all in and fully get the point, and then it needs to be practiced.
What I have NOT been able to get comfortable with is Harlan's low pivot thing -- where he moves more from the ankles and knees than at the waist. I do keep my feet closer than shoulder width as he suggests, but pivoting at the ankles and knees just does not seem to work for me. I don't have much vertical movement anyway, so it doesn't seem important that it come from a specific part of my body.
-Gary
Last summer I was in a rough patch and hadn't shot a 25-straight in a couple months. But as soon as I bought Harlan's DVD and switched to a high gun I shot 25-24-25-23 on the first weekend (which is phenomenal for my modest skill level). I've been up and down since then but I'll never go back to a low gun and chasing targets. I'm not a one-eyed shooter but I do cross-fire, so I just put some Scotch tape over my left pupil and the high hold works great. I see the bird right out of the house with my peripheral vision. What's important to remember about the HIGH GUN is that YOU STILL HAVE TO ADJUST HOW HIGH. You can't just mindlessly hold three or four feet off the house every day and expect good scores. If the presentation is low or inconsistent, you need to adjust downward. If it's windy, you adjust if necessary. You also need to adjust your eye up/down as you adjust the vertical component of your hold points. Harlan explains this in his videos. It takes a few times to soak it all in and fully get the point, and then it needs to be practiced.
What I have NOT been able to get comfortable with is Harlan's low pivot thing -- where he moves more from the ankles and knees than at the waist. I do keep my feet closer than shoulder width as he suggests, but pivoting at the ankles and knees just does not seem to work for me. I don't have much vertical movement anyway, so it doesn't seem important that it come from a specific part of my body.
-Gary
I took Harlan's class with several of my buddies. One of them argued with Harlan on just about everything. Seems he knew more than Harlan or had some inisght he wanted the rest of us to learn. Another guy, said he had already tried most of what Harlan suggested.
For me the best of all was that he helped fit 2 of my guns to me to shoot 100%. Though I thought I had it right before, it seems I did not.
Six months later, I adopted several of Harlan's suggestions (push to target, pararell gun, changed stance at 1 and 5) and my scores are consistent and up overall. I feel I got my money's worth, and will retake the refresher when he is in town again. The other guys still have the same issues as before...
For me the best of all was that he helped fit 2 of my guns to me to shoot 100%. Though I thought I had it right before, it seems I did not.
Six months later, I adopted several of Harlan's suggestions (push to target, pararell gun, changed stance at 1 and 5) and my scores are consistent and up overall. I feel I got my money's worth, and will retake the refresher when he is in town again. The other guys still have the same issues as before...
I don't know if it's a good idea to copy someone else's routine lock, stock, and barrel. I'm sure some of his pointers will help some shooters, but trying to do it all over a short timeframe would get more than some into the "thinking too much" scenario. It certainly works for him. I suppose shooting as much as he and the other instructors do might be a big factor in their success; firing 5-10K rounds/month will most certainly lock in one's muscle memory...
My wife always reminds me if you get one idea out of a video or the book you are reading, the effort was worthwhile. I know I got a few decent ideas from Mr. Campbell, so the money spent was worth it. Mine was more affirming that I was doing the right things versus trying something new.....cya
My wife always reminds me if you get one idea out of a video or the book you are reading, the effort was worthwhile. I know I got a few decent ideas from Mr. Campbell, so the money spent was worth it. Mine was more affirming that I was doing the right things versus trying something new.....cya
tanda1,
Yup...
Men’s first team
Harlan Campbell Jr., Kan.—
Captain ..............................................3,003
Sean Hawley, Utah ..................................1,796
Mitchel Loveless II, Tenn. ......................1,548
Leo Harrison III, Mo...............................1,480
Ray Stafford, Colo...................................1,447
Richard Marshall Jr., Neb. ......................1,427
Scott Gens, Minn.....................................1,366
David Kelly, Cal. ....................................1,328
Fred Nagel, S.D. ......................................1,311
Chris Vendel, N.Y. ..................................1,280
Tim Reed, S.D. ........................................1,178
Bradley Heath, N.Y. ................................1,126
Yup...
Men’s first team
Harlan Campbell Jr., Kan.—
Captain ..............................................3,003
Sean Hawley, Utah ..................................1,796
Mitchel Loveless II, Tenn. ......................1,548
Leo Harrison III, Mo...............................1,480
Ray Stafford, Colo...................................1,447
Richard Marshall Jr., Neb. ......................1,427
Scott Gens, Minn.....................................1,366
David Kelly, Cal. ....................................1,328
Fred Nagel, S.D. ......................................1,311
Chris Vendel, N.Y. ..................................1,280
Tim Reed, S.D. ........................................1,178
Bradley Heath, N.Y. ................................1,126
I have been holding a high gun like Harlan for over 35 years now, I gradually kept holding higher and higher till I felt comfortable.
Gary Bryant
Dr.longshot
Gary Bryant
Dr.longshot
I learned the push form my first coach Jack Gracey. But I have to agree with the non-pushers, it is not easy to learn. Adn too, this:
the Campbell "Push" dovetails perfectly into "cracking your forward knee" on hard rights from 5, and hard lefts from 1. The gun speed to the target is faster and you have less tendency to roll your body.
Kinda lost in this concept is how quickly this allows you to get to the second bird of doubles. Those of you that struggle at doubles mostly are shooting the second bird too far away. It should look like a singles target (distance wise).
Hey Rick... I've watched you shoot but find it hard to see if you are on the house or above it at set-up. Which is it? For those who do not know Rick, he has a wonderful skill set that nets him great averages.
Jack
the Campbell "Push" dovetails perfectly into "cracking your forward knee" on hard rights from 5, and hard lefts from 1. The gun speed to the target is faster and you have less tendency to roll your body.
Kinda lost in this concept is how quickly this allows you to get to the second bird of doubles. Those of you that struggle at doubles mostly are shooting the second bird too far away. It should look like a singles target (distance wise).
Hey Rick... I've watched you shoot but find it hard to see if you are on the house or above it at set-up. Which is it? For those who do not know Rick, he has a wonderful skill set that nets him great averages.
Jack
When I came over to trap from sporting clays, the first thing I did was take a clinic from Harlan. I was a sponge. He said "do this, do that." I had no idea what the hell I was doing, but the targets started breaking with a greater and greater regularity.
We have many leagues where I live. I have no interest in ATA...not the time or money or interest to compete. But, my average on the last 2000 league targets is 98.7. Thanks Harlan!
We have many leagues where I live. I have no interest in ATA...not the time or money or interest to compete. But, my average on the last 2000 league targets is 98.7. Thanks Harlan!
I have had my share of success locally using Harlans techniques. I have seen some shooters improve dramatically using it. It seems to work well for older shooters as they get slower to the bird. You shouldn't expect immediate results with the high hold thing. It takes a while to get used to it. Bill
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