The scenario is; your squad has already started a round (shooter one and two have already shot) the wind changes and the machine starts throwing illegal birds. Can you request that the trap machine be checked at this time? Would it matter if it was something mechanical or the weather? The ATA rules seem to be a little vague on this issue.
Aperoyea
When can you request a trap machine to be reset???
You can ask at ANY time but according to the rules there may or may not be a change made.
See the Rule Book;
Rule IV, G, 7.
Should a trap be throwing targets that, although not necessarily illegal, appreciably vary from trap to trap, any shooter may request that management reset the trap even though prior squads have shot. The final decision as to whether or not a trap is to be reset will be made only by shoot management.
Don T
See the Rule Book;
Rule IV, G, 7.
Should a trap be throwing targets that, although not necessarily illegal, appreciably vary from trap to trap, any shooter may request that management reset the trap even though prior squads have shot. The final decision as to whether or not a trap is to be reset will be made only by shoot management.
Don T
Any shooter can ask any time. The rules are clear. In 45 years of shooting I have only had one shoot manager refuse to take a look. Sometimes they have refused to change the targets but I've never seen a gun club refuse, at least try, to fix a machine throwing bad targets. An extreme wind change that drastically changes the flight of the targets is a good reason to have them looked at.
That's why they have adjustments on the traps. Those that don't want to change them ... well ... that's their business ... and they shouldn't complain when the squad behind them have them changed.
That's why they have adjustments on the traps. Those that don't want to change them ... well ... that's their business ... and they shouldn't complain when the squad behind them have them changed.
Correct, you just have to instill enough discipline in yourself that you can 'refuse' them. Even after thousands of targets I still have a hard time turning down a low screaming right from post 5. I generally break them but my 'back up staff' gives me the business about even shooting the thing.
Don T
Don T
The best way to have them changed is to stop and tell the scorekeeper you believe the targets need to be checked. Then go back behind the trap and sit down and wait. They can't ever make you shoot at illegal targets. They can be reset at ANY time they are not within the limits of the rulebook. This can happen more than once per round if necessary. I've been told no several times and now I know how to stop it. Many times I've seen people shoot junk targets because of peer pressure, stupidity or not wanting to cause a scene. Clubs should be happy to reset them for their customers if they are outside of the rules regarding angles, speed or height. You paid to shoot registered targets so why shoot at something when you have a poor chance to break a good score.
I shot a Provincial shoot many years ago where the wind was blowing the length of the trap line, left to right. ANY right hand bird was illegal, even after the traps were reset. Left handers would just barely clear the inner edge of the traphouse, and unless you got them immediately (before they were more than 2.5- 3 feet above the house), they started to drift right, and if you tried to ride them out, they would just increase their flight to the right. I believe I shot a 58 that event.
And when a front comes through, it is a heck of a wind. The question really is that if it is between 8'-10' at the bar and comes out of the house at about 17 degrees either right or left, does what the wind do to it afterwards make it an illegal target?
I was referring to having the targets reset if they are outside of the rulebook settings. The correct thing to do then is stop and have them reset. If you get a weird or strange flight path you have the right to turn down 2 targets per sub event. There is no limit if the scorekeeper calls "No Target" because of a broken target or it's flight path clearly outside the limit.
We get big wind changes quite frequently. Both direction and magnitude and it usually happens in less than two minutes. Resetting the machine is not necessarily a correction but it is worth a try. So to get at the op's question yes you may request an adjustment but always remember we are playing an outdoor game and you will have to deal with difficult target presentations when it is windy no matter how much you try to adjust the thrower.
The 17 degrees to the right and left of center stake is a minimum angle. Legal targets can be as much as 27 degrees to the left and right of the center stake. We have stakes to indicate the (minimum) 17 degree points on our trap fields. These stakes help when setting doubles, but some shooters think that any thing to the right of these stakes are illegal. We always try to set targets in the still wind and this usually changes when the wind comes directly into trap. I am always willing to adjust the traps when shooters ask, but I really can't do much about the wind. Sometimes getting the height adjusted in headwind has as much to do with speed as it does height adjustment. I think most clubs try to throw good targets and are willing to adjust them when asked.
Marty Hill
Marty Hill
We may ask for resets when wind is monkeying with legally set targets but its left up to shoot management to decide. A few years back, Pat Ireland and I asked for such a change at Middletown SC when the targets became wild. We were turned down by shoot management twice!
Throwing targets into a hard blowing head wind is almost impossible to set a legal target. Why? Because of the rule book "speed limits" which is taboo to increase. An increase in target speed may help stabilize the target a bit farther out so a shooter may stand a better chance of breaking the target. With that increased speed comes a higher target RPM which makes it more stable a bit farther into it's flight into a hard head wind. Our speed rules assume ideal conditions when they were adopted and can't be made up for monkeying with the angles and height settings alone.
I might suggest trying it before saying it won't work best in such conditions?
HAP
Throwing targets into a hard blowing head wind is almost impossible to set a legal target. Why? Because of the rule book "speed limits" which is taboo to increase. An increase in target speed may help stabilize the target a bit farther out so a shooter may stand a better chance of breaking the target. With that increased speed comes a higher target RPM which makes it more stable a bit farther into it's flight into a hard head wind. Our speed rules assume ideal conditions when they were adopted and can't be made up for monkeying with the angles and height settings alone.
I might suggest trying it before saying it won't work best in such conditions?
HAP
Gentlepeople will agree that reading and knowing the rulebook is essential. There are very few "gray areas" in the ATA rulebook. Most of them reside in the heads of those who don't know the rules.
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