Yes. But they say you are not supposed to look at the needs. So you could adjust the stock in such are not in that configuration thus changing the point of aim.

 

Sorry “beads” not needs.

 

Pattern your gun on a patterning board. Most all gun clubs have them. Then you will know where your gun is shooting.

 

The purpose of the comb is to adjust the gun to you so that you can put the beads in the snowman configuration

Incorrect. "Snowman" or more commonly termed "figure 8" is a completely arbitrary thing, and by no means a goal. Some people like to see FLAT down the rib, some people like to see space (sometimes a LOT of space) between the beads, and sometimes people like a figure 8. There is no universal right or wrong, it's whatever is right or wrong for you.

and not to change POI!

Incorrect. The purpose of an adjustable comb is to get the fit you want, sight picture you want, and POI you want. If you're lucky all 3 align at the same time.

So if a gun shoots 60/40 (assuming that the beads are in the snowman configuration) no matter where you move that comb it will still shoot 60/40 if the beads are in a snowman configuration.

Incorrect. If you see a figure 8, and raise your comb 1/8", you may be able to roll your head forward enough to still see a figure 8, but your gun fit has changed, as has your gun mount and body orientation.

 

@skeet_man was typing the same time I was (great minds think alike) . . .

OP: You're confusing moving an adjustable comb for stock fit purposes versus moving it purely for POI purposes. Both are common practices, but they're not the same things.

Yes, you're correct . . . moving the comb in and of itself doesn't change POI. Moving your eye changes POI . . . the comb is simply the gun component that you adjust to move the eye. For more detail, note that your statements are basically correct, but not quite "complete" . . . you're omitting key details.

The purpose of the comb is to adjust the gun to you so that you can put the beads in the snowman configuration.

You should have said: "The purpose of the comb is to place your eye in the position that yields the best results for you with this particular gun using the amount of cheek pressure you prefer. For any shooter with any gun, the optimum vertical eye position might be Figure-8 bead alignment or it might not. Configure the comb so the optimum eye position is effortlessly achieved when you cheek the stock the way you like to do it. Most shooters prefer a "medium" amount of cheek pressure, neither too light, nor bearing down excessively hard".

So if a gun shoots 60/40 (assuming that the beads are in the snowman configuration) no matter where you move that comb it will still shoot 60/40 if the beads are in a snowman configuration.

You should have added the text shown in italics. . . "So if a gun shoots 60/40 (assuming that the beads are in the snowman configuration) no matter where you move that comb it will still shoot 60/40 if the beads are in a snowman configuration. Yeah, but (for example), suppose you had good stock fit. Cheeking the stock the way you prefer gives you the bead alignment that's best for you (let's say it is Figure-8). Now, if you raise the comb higher, you'll need to smash your cheek down harder to re-obtain the Figure-8 bead alignment. If that's what you wanted, OK, but realize you altered the stock fit by doing this.

On the other hand, maybe you raised the comb to make your Point of Impact higher. If that was the reason for moving the comb, realize you're not changing stock fit. You're simply "adjusting your sights". If POI was the reason you raised the comb (a legitimate reason), you must be willing to accept a new eye position (in fact, that was the whole idea). You had good stock fit with the previous comb position, and you still have good stock fit with the higher comb position . . . same cheek pressure, different eye position (bead alignment), different Vertical POI.

[Side note: I'm amazed at the number of shooters who foul this up. They decide they want a higher POI and raise their comb, but unwittingly smash their cheek down harder to re-obtain the same bead alignment they had before. Then, they wonder why their POI didn't change, and why the gun is banging/abrading their cheek when it didn't do that before].

 

The answer to your question is yes Some times before people can give a answer they change the question

 

I'm pretty sure my mx15 has beads, I don't look at them regularly...

 

This topic is visited on here SO often. I usually see people posting that if you have an adjustable rib and and adjustable comb, the comb changes POI. And I disagree.

Adjust the rib (if possible) for the POI that you want. Many even have marks or tell in the owners manual what rib setting with give what POI (with a margin of error). Then adjust the comb so that the sight picture and rib/sight alignment are what you want to see.

Personally I like my gun to shoot about 80/20. So I set the rib, shoot the pattern board with my gun in a solid rest/gun-vise and the beads lined up on the pattern board so that the beads are "snowmanned". My head never even touches the comb for this. I treat it like I am sighting in a benchrest rifle. If the pattern/POI is not 80/20 I adjust the rib up or down to get it there, and repeat as necessary.

Once the POI is set with the rib and you are happy with it, adjust the comb so that the gin fits you and you get the rib/bead sight picture you want. I always tell students and others I am helping to mount the gun with their eyes closed. adjust their head, shoulder, EVERYTHING about their gun mount with eyes closed so that they get the gun perfectly where they want it and it feels best. THEN open their eyes. If they are not lined up on the rib and beads like they want, adjust the comb a little and try again... with eyes closed to start.

If you do it with your eyes open when you first start, you will just naturally put your head down so you are correctly on the rib, and may not be in your natural/neutral mount position.

Just my thoughts, not sure they are even worth a penny, but... lol


As an added thought... Once everything is set up like this (POI what you want, gun mount comfortable and neutral, rib/bead alignment what you want) you can just about forget about the beads and rib then. Just 100% mount the gun the same every time and follow the target.

 

This topic is visited on here SO often. I usually see people posting that if you have an adjustable rib and and adjustable comb, the comb changes POI. And I disagree.

Adjust the rib (if possible) for the POI that you want. Many even have marks or tell in the owners manual what rib setting with give what POI (with a margin of error). Then adjust the comb so that the sight picture and rib/sight alignment are what you want to see.

Personally I like my gun to shoot about 80/20. So I set the rib, shoot the pattern board with my gun in a solid rest/gun-vise and the beads lined up on the pattern board so that the beads are "snowmanned". My head never even touches the comb for this. I treat it like I am sighting in a benchrest rifle. If the pattern/POI is not 80/20 I adjust the rib up or down to get it there, and repeat as necessary.

Once the POI is set with the rib and you are happy with it, adjust the comb so that the gin fits you and you get the rib/bead sight picture you want. I always tell students and others I am helping to mount the gun with their eyes closed. adjust their head, shoulder, EVERYTHING about their gun mount with eyes closed so that they get the gun perfectly where they want it and it feels best. THEN open their eyes. If they are not lined up on the rib and beads like they want, adjust the comb a little and try again... with eyes closed to start.

If you do it with your eyes open when you first start, you will just naturally put your head down so you are correctly on the rib, and may not be in your natural/neutral mount position.

Just my thoughts, not sure they are even worth a penny, but... lol


As an added thought... Once everything is set up like this (POI what you want, gun mount comfortable and neutral, rib/bead alignment what you want) you can just about forget about the beads and rib then. Just 100% mount the gun the same every time and follow the target.

That makes no sense.
Glad it works for you.

 

OK... I ignored those without an adjustable rib... Yes those folks can adjust POI with their comb, but they are going to have to be satisfied with possibly having a certain amount of gap between the beads as they raise their comb for a higher POI. Or see more rib if there is no mid-bead.

Therefore.... I am a huge fan of adjustable rib WITH adjustable comb. To me it is the 2 halves of the equation.

 

For me it is pretty simple:

1. If I want to raise the POI I raise the comb.
2.Once I have the comb adjusted for my desired POI I adjust the rib for comfort of view over the muzzle. Normally basic bead alignment is fine I do not have to have a figure 8 at all cost.
3.If I have a shotgun with a adjustable comb only I adjust for the desired POI but if the view over the muzzle leaves me viewing a lot of the rib that is not something I like to shoot over.
4.Do what works for you but I feel you get the most POI adjustment from a adjustable comb not your rib.

 

This is a very good synopsis. Regarding point #3, if you’re unable ignore or tune out the spacing between beads, a hack to consider is moving the rear bead closer to the front bead. Around 14-15 inch separation should do the trick.

 

So if a gun shoots 60/40 (assuming that the beads are in the snowman configuration) no matter where you move that comb it will still shoot 60/40 if the beads are in a snowman configuration.

That is correct. The idea of a adj. comb is so that your cheek is locked onto the stock (with the pressure you prefer), while still feeling comfortable. Your target shotgun should shoot a 60/40 POI (figure 8 with beads) if that is what the manufacturer says the rib is set to. So you can raise the comb, thus creating a space between the two beads. Doing this will raise your POI. Or like skeet_man mentioned. You can lower (if possible) your comb to get the two beads lined up behind each other. Now your shotgun will shoot a 50/50 POI. So its possible to shoot a 50/50 to say a 80/20 POI (real large space between beads) with a target shotgun that has a fixed rib that the factory set at 60/40.
With a adj. comb your cheek can be still be comfortable, while still maintaining the pressure to the stock that you prefer. I hope this explanation might be easier for you to understand?

The idea of buying a shotgun with a adj. Rib. Is so that your eye can still make the fig. 8 with the beads at all times. Because if you like a 80/20 POI shotgun. You might need a 1/4 space between the beads. So with so much space, it can become easy to mount your shotgun for one shot. With a 3/16 space, and the next time you mount the shotgun, you might have a 5/16 space. You will never notice this, and you can become sloppy with your gun mounts. Thus you increase your chances of missing more birds per 100 target event. So keeping the beads with a tight fig. 8 creates a more consistent gun mount. Leo arguably the best Trap shooter ever. Said he checks his beads every time he mounted his shotgun. Of course once you do this, you need to look downfield for the target. Never again looking directly at your barrel. So in conclusion, now you know why some trap shooters prefer a adj. rib on there shotgun. Over a fixed rib on there shotgun. Leo could never shoot a high rib. Not everyone can. Not everyone can shoot a high POI shotgun either. You have to find out what works for you. No Shortcuts how to do this. You have to shoot a few thousands rounds out of a shotgun to find out. Of course the cheapest way is to buy a "Add-a-Rib". Install this higher rib on your current shotgun. Install longer posts on your adj. comb to raise the comb up to the new rib. Now shoot a few thousand rounds. You can change the POI with the new add a rib too. By changing the angle of this new rib. Just a FYI as it were. In case your interested in doing this down the road. Good Luck to Ya. break em all Jeff

 

That is correct. The idea of a adj. comb is so that your cheek is locked onto the stock (with the pressure you prefer), while still feeling comfortable. Your target shotgun should shoot a 60/40 POI (figure 8 with beads) if that is what the manufacturer says the rib is set to. So you can raise the comb, thus creating a space between the two beads. Doing this will raise your POI. Or like skeet_man mentioned. You can lower (if possible) your comb to get the two beads lined up behind each other. Now your shotgun will shoot a 50/50 POI. So its possible to shoot a 50/50 to say a 80/20 POI (real large space between beads) with a target shotgun that has a fixed rib that the factory set at 60/40.
With a adj. comb your cheek can be still be comfortable, while still maintaining the pressure to the stock that you prefer. I hope this explanation might be easier for you to understand?

The idea of buying a shotgun with a adj. Rib. Is so that your eye can still make the fig. 8 with the beads at all times. Because if you like a 80/20 POI shotgun. You might need a 1/4 space between the beads. So with so much space, it can become easy to mount your shotgun for one shot. With a 3/16 space, and the next time you mount the shotgun, you might have a 5/16 space. You will never notice this, and you can become sloppy with your gun mounts. Thus you increase your chances of missing more birds per 100 target event. So keeping the beads with a tight fig. 8 creates a more consistent gun mount. Leo arguably the best Trap shooter ever. Said he checks his beads every time he mounted his shotgun. Of course once you do this, you need to look downfield for the target. Never again looking directly at your barrel. So in conclusion, now you know why some trap shooters prefer a adj. rib on there shotgun. Over a fixed rib on there shotgun. Leo could never shoot a high rib. Not everyone can. Not everyone can shoot a high POI shotgun either. You have to find out what works for you. No Shortcuts how to do this. You have to shoot a few thousands rounds out of a shotgun to find out. Of course the cheapest way is to buy a "Add-a-Rib". Install this higher rib on your current shotgun. Install longer posts on your adj. comb to raise the comb up to the new rib. Now shoot a few thousand rounds. You can change the POI with the new add a rib too. By changing the angle of this new rib. Just a FYI as it were. In case your interested in doing this down the road. Good Luck to Ya. break em all Jeff

Leo shot a DT11 effectively or is that considered a high enough rib for your statement?

 

why would anyone want to shoot at a pattern board "to know where your gun is shooting" i want to know where my gun is shooting on a target. that is why you should shoot targets from post 3 with the trap locked on straightaways...

 

To verify your POI so if ever something happens to your stock/stock setting, you have a reference of where to set it.

To give you a starting point of where to set up a new gun.

To verify that your barrel/barrels shoot straight left to right.

 

yes your supposed to stack the beads but from what I've heard and what I do is get your form and your stance correct and once you do that and practice you should be able to put your gun up and just focus on your shot rather than focusing on if your beads are stacked. also don't aim when shooting. just use your eyes and body and it should lead you to hit your target.

 

• Ignore the fact that the OP even mentioned the beads. They're not really relevant to his question.
• Ignore the fact that you shouldn't be focusing on the beads when actually shooting. That's also not relevant to the OP's question.
• OP was simply asking about moving the comb to a different position. Beads or not, rib or not, the OP simply needs a little guidance on the reasons why shooters move the comb, and he needs guidance on when the shooter must be willing to accept a different eye position in 3-dimensional space behind the gun.
• OP seemed to be claiming that moving the comb doesn't change POI. He literally said so in his initial post (see quote below, empasis added):

• The purpose of the comb is to adjust the gun to you so that you can put the beads in the snowman configuration (thus: making the gun fit you) and not to change POI!

• So, the real topic of this thread is that the OP seems unaware that moving the comb (and your eye along with it) for POI purposes is actually something shooters do. The presence (or absence) of beads is independent of this concept.
• Comb movement for stock fit reasons vs comb movement for an intentional POI change. Already answered by several folks.

 

• Ignore the fact that the OP even mentioned the beads. They're not really relevant to his question.
• Ignore the fact that you shouldn't be focusing on the beads when actually shooting. That's also not relevant to the OP's question.
• OP was simply asking about moving the comb to a different position. Beads or not, rib or not, the OP simply needs a little guidance on the reasons why shooters move the comb, and he needs guidance on when the shooter must be willing to accept a different eye position in 3-dimensional space behind the gun.
• OP seemed to be claiming that moving the comb doesn't change POI. He literally said so in his initial post (see quote below, empasis added):
• So, the real topic of this thread is that the OP seems unaware that moving the comb (and your eye along with it) for POI purposes is actually something shooters do. The presence (or absence) of beads is independent of this concept.
• Comb movement for stock fit reasons vs comb movement for an intentional POI change. Already answered by several folks.

In a past life long forgotten, Boeing tech writer here. Your response is spot on. I don't understand why the haters come out in these forums for what seems the sole purpose of bashing someone who is asking for help in understanding the why/when/what to do something.

 

Yes is the short answer.

Shawn

 

The point of two beads is to help insure consistent alignment from shot to shot, especially if the stock fitting doesn't promote a consistent hold each time.

 

For the original question:
If your comb is parallel to your rib the beads will look the same, if your head is forward or back from the position that is the norm.

 

Man, I’m glad I started shooting before reading this thread. If I were a newbie who’d just read this I’d sell my guns and take up cribbage.

 

How about pickleball??

 

People need to get past all this stacking the beads crap. Why care how much space is between the beads as long as the gun shoots where you want it. A few on here think it's the holy grail must do. Probably tell you length of pull is right if it fits in the crook of your elbow. Just clubhouse bs.

 

It would be nice to go back in time to the first guy who put a mid bead on a shotgun barrel and smack him upside the head with the barrel.

 

what jk80 said!!!!

 

Because you can’t read where your gun is shooting by trying to read breaks. 😀
Google Neil Winston.

 

I’d sure hate to be the new kid on the block and try to decipher some of the advice given.

 

Maybe.

Hopefully the smart ones will figure it out. If not, I'll summarize:



The big error people make is in thinking that "stacking the beads", or having an "80/20" pattern is the goal.

Those are consequences, not goals. The goal is to break targets. Set the gun up to break targets.

What your "sight picture" looks like, or what your pattern "percentage" is doesn't matter.

All that matters is whether your gun set up allows you to consistently break targets to the best of your ability.

If you then want to figure out what that set up "looks like" on a pattern board so you can return to it with a new gun, or after losing or gaining weight, or whatever . . . fine. Knock yourself out.

But we see too many people here who start out where their goal is "stacking the beads" or "shooting an 80/20 pattern." It's the old "cart before the horse" situation.

It's already been mentioned, and I've mentioned it a ton of times myself, to "set up" a gun is very simple:

Lock the trap to throw a straight away from post three. Stand there and shoot targets from the 16 and adjust your comb until you are smoke balling the target.

There. You're done. For singles. Now do the same thing from your handicap yardage. If you need to change the comb height at your yardage then you have a decision to make: either use shims to change between events, or learn to shoot singles with your handicap adjustment (it can be done).

Then, as I've mentioned, if you want to "document" that set up on the pattern board, have at it.

But whatever that set up is, it is a consequence of adjusting your gun to break targets.




Then Sharpie your beads black and stop worrying about the "snowman."

 

No argument here V10. I learned early on what to do. I shoot with current and former state champions. When he was still with us, I had conversations with Neil Winston. I have my guns set to my liking and I don’t worry about the stack. I feel sorry for the new folks that see so much incorrect advice. If they would do as you say, they would be a lot better off.

 

Those with the least experience and knowledge always speak the loudest!

 

It must be nice to be perfect in every way. Funny though I don’t see a halo above your head or angel wings on your shoulders. For the rest of us, I use dbl beads all the time and it helps a lots with my shooting.

 

Great thread so I only have 1 bead at end no mid bead and I need to shoot at straight away clays low left 7:30 ish on a clock to get that Puffball . How do I shim stock for correct poi

 

Adjustable comb. i wouldn't mess with the stock, but that’s just me.

 

Had a fling with a gal that was very stacked and equipped with mid beads and half my age........ mmmm, what's that question again???😎😎😎