It has been suggested to me to model win209, but not to exceed 8500 PSI as a good base case. I am a reloading rookie so please take with grain of salt.

 

I just scanned the data for 700X in the Rem hull and the comment about Cheddite being made for single base powders ought to apply with equal force to Rio and Fiocchi primers. I don't see any signficiant deviation between the data using the Fed 209A (usually the hottest primer with flake powder like 700X) and the Rio and Fiocchi data. I think you would be OK using no more than 17.5 gr. of 700X with the Cheddite primers. I don't think they are any hotter than the Fed, Rio and Fio primers with a flake powder like 700X. Different story with ball powders.

 

Thanks Nebs. Maybe I'll knock it down a 1/2 grain and load us a box and see how it performs for a starting basis point.

 

Wait let me get the popcorn!

 

You could load up 6 of them and send them off to Precision Reloading for ballistics testing.
It will cost you 40 bucks plus 6.5% sales tax plus shipping. They will have an answer for you in a couple of weeks.
Or you could rely on nebulous information gleaned from the internet 🤔.

 

WINNER WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER!
This is the ONLY Way TO KNOW What You Have!

 

BPI's Advantage book is supposed to have 1000a of load data for Cheddites. Mine will be here on Saturday. Ill let you know!

 

I'm looking through advantages now. No STS/Nitro loads with cheddite primers. Lots of loads for cheddite hull/primer though. Hodgdon's site is actually getting more cheddite primer load data, so I would be careful experimenting where they don't have a published load for the hull with cheddites.

 

Thanks Algaeguy. I look forward to any info from the Advantage book. Yes I am trying to avoid the "nebulous" aspect. That is why I asked if anyone had this specific load sent out and tested.

 

I only load W209's with 17.5gn 700X. Hodgdon advised me to not use cheddites since they havn't tested it yet. If you only have cheddites then I would look for WSH powder. there's plenty data on that combo. 19.6-19.8 gn is a great load.

 

I have been loading Cheddites 209 with 700x 17 gn Remington GC hulls (or STS when I can get them) Claybuster 8100 wads with no issues for about 8 months now. Recently switched over to Win. 209 to try them keeping the rest of the recipe the same . No issues there either . So doing the reverse of what you are trying.

 

Hodgdon does have published data on 3/4 oz loads using cheddites and 700x In a STS hull along with fio, win, and rem primers. You can see a correlation in increased pressures using cheddites vs. win 209. There is a huge jump in pressure using a Fio vs win primer. This is just to give you an idea and in no way should you assume same percentage increase in pressure loading 1 1/8 oz.
I would be happy to send a couple dollars your way to help with the expense of getting your load tested. I shoot the same load and will be out of rem primers in another 3 months then will be going to cheddites.

 

I load 21.5 gr of Green Dot in a Winchester hull with a Claybuster 1 oz or 1 1/8 oz wad and 1 oz of shot. These chronographed at about 1300 fps with a Winchester primer and 1330/40 with a Cheddite primer. I have seen recommendations to drop 1/2 gr when going from a w209 to a Chedditte cx2000. Makes sense.

 

I went from Remington 209's to Cheddites, with varying loads from 1oz lights to 1 1/8 heavies. Not one problem at all. Used to be Cheddites were just a tad larger than the Remington's, but I think they are the same size now. I use the Alliant charts loading with American Select powder and either a Remington or Winchester 209.

 

As you can now see, some have posted that you can make these changes without concern!

A couple have told you wisely why you should have your specific load tested as there is no supporting ballistic tested info for it.

In previous days, the powder companies were telling folks that as long as pressures were 8500psi and below, primer swapping was allowable. But, apparently now the reply is as noted in different threads, Cheddites are manufactured for use with single base powders so uncertainty exists when combining with double base powders.

That statement could lead one to believing that the powder companies have no doubt been testing different powders with Cheddites and possibly other Euro primers and that previous recommended primer swap threshold of 8500psi is not or no longer a safe threshold for swapping.

But like with many items, some will proceed in so doing and declare that they have without having anyway to acknowledge that it's safe other than their gun is still in one piece.

 

In previous days, the powder companies were telling folks that as long as pressures were 8500psi and below, primer swapping was allowable. But, apparently now the reply is as noted in different threads, Cheddites are manufactured for use with single base powders so uncertainty exists when combining with double base powders.

That statement could lead one to believing that the powder companies have no doubt been testing different powders with Cheddites and possibly other Euro primers and that previous recommended primer swap threshold of 8500psi is not or no longer a safe threshold for swapping.

Alliant is still making this 8500 PSI recommendation. I contacted them asking about when Cheddite primer load data would be available for Red Dot, as I was seeking information for a 1200 FPS 1 oz load using that powder and some other commonly available components. Here is the reply, verbatim, I received yesterday - 2/15/22;

"Carl,

Here is the rule of thumb when it comes to a primer swap in shotshells. This is based upon two independent studies where when just the primer was changed, a swing in pressure was noted by as much as 2500 PSI. This was found in not one, but both studies done.

So, if pressures fall between 6500 – 8500 PSI, a primer swap can be done. But, if the pressures fall outside of this window, stick to the tested load recipe.

For your components, and an 1150 FPS load, the charge of Alliant Red Dot would be 16.5 grains. This has a pressure of 7900 PSI. The load for 1200 FPS is way beyond the above mentioned window for pressure."

So, the old advise is still being issued for primer swapping, at least in the case of Alliant. They didn't answer my direct question, which is when they will have published, tested load data information available for Red Dot with the only primers, Cheddite, which have been generally available over the past year.

Load, ship, and test at Precision Reloading looks to be the only option for the foreseeable future of loading with these components.

 

I decided on the smart move and go with the testing. I loaded up two test strings switching only the Winchester primer for the Cheddite in the 1 1/8 oz load and a 1 oz load as another choice. Cheap price for piece of mind and the safety on the firing line. There were pressure spikes in the 1 1/8 oz load up to 14000 psi / way over the safe limit. The 1 oz. load tested averaged 1270 fps and 9600 psi. I think it will be a winner. Lesson learned not to be a mixologist with components.

 

I had a similar experience. I sent some loads off to be tested in order to get a sense of the pressure differences between Win and Ched primers. With Competition (a ball) powder, the Cheds were significantly hotter than the Wins.

 

Thank you both for sharing these results - real-world testing beats hearsay every time. It just reinforces my practice of following published recipes without component substitution. I don't need a 14k psi load in my gun!

 

I use WW-209s in everything.

I load to <1200 fps.

 

I have swapped Win 209 and Cheddite 209 on 12,20,28 with no problems, have kept my Win 209’s for 410 because seem to seat better IMO in the small hulls.

shoot away

 

What sort of problem might you expect to see?

 

I have loaded that recipe in both WinAA and Remington hulls. Vaguely rememember something about reducing powder (minimally) if using cheddite primer instead of Win. It may have been with Promo powder rather than 700X. That said I have used Cheddite instead of Win with no problems with published recipes for 700X.

 

I have loaded that recipe in both WinAA and Remington hulls. Vaguely rememember something about reducing powder (minimally) if using cheddite primer instead of Win. It may have been with Promo powder rather than 700X. That said I have used Cheddite instead of Win with no problems with published recipes for 700X.

I keep seeing this refrain that someone used this component instead of that component "with no problems." The thing that goes through my mind every time I see it is "thank God."

 

So, since my original question has not been answered and the tread has turned to opinions. I have elected to contact the manufacture directly when they open.

swapping components without clear published data is dangerous and fool hearty.

all ya’all can keep trying to convince each other how your load is safe, I prefer hard data.

 

But this is your first post in this thread?