I am also very curious as to reloading like Winchester 209's Is this for the 686's or 688's?
I have a lot of the 688's

 

688

 

For the 688's, it is my understanding that Nobel Sport bought the recipe for the Win209 from Hodgdon and it uses the same load data. I've been using them in place of the Win209 in my loads and can tell zero difference in how they perform.

 

NSI - the best you need - Primers (nobelsport.it)

 

I've always load'd the 686's as w209s. This would lead me to believe not to load the 688s that way. Purely speculation.

 

Any idea why there is zero published data?

 

686 I think are an older NobelSport primer and do not function well in cold weather. Regardless, the 688's are prevalent now and what most of us see and buy when we come across NobelSport primers in the USA.

Link to the NobelSport USA Distributor: Nobelsport | dkg1 That page has info on the 688 primers (209/688 as they call them) and a free download for published reloading data. Their data is only for some Hodgdon powders.

I spoke with Alliant a while back about safe data for NobelSport primers. I was told to freely substitute any primer for published load data with a psi of 6500-8500 with Alliant powders. Any data listed over 8500 call and ask Alliant or have your load tested professionally such as at Precision Reloading.

The Red Dot load which I was inquiring was 8700 psi, a couple hundred psi over their 8500 threshold to substitute primers freely with no verification. The guy at Alliant gave me verification that my load would be safe at 8700 psi with a Nobel primer. I have loaded a couple thousand with excellent results and no problems: 18.0 grain Red Dot, TGT12 / CB8100-12, NobelSport 688 primer and any Remington hull such as STS, Nitro, Clay & Field, Gun Club and Heavy Dove. This is a 1200 fps at 8700 psi and is a published load data on Alliant's website. If you use a CB1100-12 wad the psi drops to 8000 which is within the 6500-8500 psi safe zone as Alliant explained to me.

I also received verification to load WinAA, 18.0 grain Red Dot, CB1100-12, NobelSport 688, 1200 fps, 8600 psi. Per the Alliant website load data, if you use the WAASL12 wad the psi jumps way up to 10,200. So I only use the CB1100-12 wads and stay away from the WAASL12's due to the psi difference in WinAA's.

Using the NobelSport published load data from DKTrading for Hodgdon powder is the obvious safest and best bet. Unfortunately, this download from DKTrading does not include your WSH powder. You may want to call Hodgdon and ask them for insights.

Always check your weights and data.

Hope this helps.

 

686 I think are an older NobelSport primer and do not function well in cold weather. Regardless, the 688's are prevalent now and what most of us see and buy when we come across NobelSport primers in the USA.

Link to the NobelSport USA Distributor: Nobelsport | dkg1 That page has info on the 688 primers (209/688 as they call them) and a free download for published reloading data. Their data is only for some Hodgdon powders.

I spoke with Alliant a while back about safe data for NobelSport primers. I was told to freely substitute any primer for published load data with a psi of 6500-8500 with Alliant powders. Any data listed over 8500 call and ask Alliant or have your load tested professionally such as at Precision Reloading.

The Red Dot load which I was inquiring was 8700 psi, a couple hundred psi over their 8500 threshold to substitute primers freely with no verification. The guy at Alliant gave me verification that my load would be safe at 8700 psi with a Nobel primer. I have loaded a couple thousand with excellent results and no problems: 18.0 grain Red Dot, TGT12 / CB8100-12, NobelSport 688 primer and any Remington hull such as STS, Nitro, Clay & Field, Gun Club and Heavy Dove. This is a 1200 fps at 8700 psi and is a published load data on Alliant's website. If you use a CB1100-12 wad the psi drops to 8000 which is within the 6500-8500 psi safe zone as Alliant explained to me.

I also received verification to load WinAA, 18.0 grain Red Dot, CB1100-12, NobelSport 688, 1200 fps, 8600 psi. Per the Alliant website load data, if you use the WAASL12 wad the psi jumps way up to 10,200. So I only use the CB1100-12 wads and stay away from the WAASL12's due to the psi difference in WinAA's.

Using the NobelSport published load data from DKTrading for Hodgdon powder is the obvious safest and best bet. Unfortunately, this download from DKTrading does not include your WSH powder. You may want to call Hodgdon and ask them for insights.

Always check your weights and data.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info, I have never seen any published data. Although it is not helping me yet with the WSH or Promo - red dot powder…. Appreciate it

 

The Lab Tested area did not produce any results when you search with 688 or Noble Sport Primers. Not sure I can sift through the pages.....Do you know what page?

 

Page 2, post number 38 by Draht. Open up the wonderful PDF file he has kindly provided in his post. The last update was on 9/25/2022.
Page 3, post number 45 by Dennis-CT also has an excel version link to view.

 

Whos got 688s in stock? I have some 686 and w209s still. Powder titegroup and WSH. Ill take one for the team and compare.

 

Good. Any idea when you will have pressure and chronograph data available?

 

As soon as I find some 688s.

 

They are available according to a search I just completed. The bad thing is, most have only 10,000 count cases available (10 trays x 1000 per tray). Hoping you have friends that would sell a couple hundred or so.

 

I just compared data from Hodgdon and Noble Sport for a load that recently loaded. Using Tightgroup power in Rem GC hulls with AA12SL wads.

17.6 gr of Titegroup with Win 209 primers is listed at 1235 fps and 9,100 psi per Hodgdon's data
17.6 gr of Tiitegroup with NS688 primers is listed at 1235 fps and 9,100 psi per Noble Sport's data.

I'd say that almost identicial - - -wait - - it is!

 

I just compared data from Hodgdon and Noble Sport for a load that recently loaded. Using Tightgroup power in Rem GC hulls with AA12SL wads.

17.6 gr of Titegroup with Win 209 primers is listed at 1235 fps and 9,100 psi per Hodgdon's data
17.6 gr of Tiitegroup with NS688 primers is listed at 1235 fps and 9,100 psi per Noble Sport's data.

I'd say that almost identicial - - -wait - - it is!

If you're using information from the reloading data found on the page linked above, that is for 686 primers, not 688. Pay close attention to the picture on the front of the reloading manual download.

 

Which Noble primer is the one available in lots of 10,000?

 

Currently that's 688.

NSI Primers | dkg1

www.dkgtrading.com

 

Nobel needs to get better at specifying their reloading information. They picture a tray of 686's at the beginning of their "Loading Guide", and their "Loading Manual" states 688's.
Not acceptable. Two very different primers.

 

If you shoot in a cold climate, beware. The 688s are nowhere near a win209 or cheddite. It makes considerably less pressure than comparable win/chedd loads. I have not had any problems in warmer temps but in the cold they get anemic, have to load more powder to keep from getting the punky Brewsters.

Nobel Sport Primers

I have been loading my 20 Ga shells with 15.5 grains of 20/28 ,7/8 oz loads using Windjammer wads ,for several years.I recently started using Nobel Sport 209 primers as that was all I could get with all the shortages we all have been experiencing and noticed the shells to be a little more...

www.trapshooters.com

 

If the 688's are bad in cold weather, would the 686's be worse? This question has turned into a cluster F....not what I intended. Why would NS build a product to be used without instruction?

 

If someone could point me to some 688s that be great. I'm down to less that 5k 686s. I wouldnt mind buying 10k if the price is decent.

 

Look in the Great Deals forum.

 

I wasn't knocking the 688 primer, I like them especially because they don't pierce in my Browning. I mentioned this in another post, I tend to load light loads for less recoil and to save components. Most of my punky sounding loads were with 7/8oz 12ga with lower velocities, such as my 16.5gr Titegroup load. I have since bumped that to 1oz with 17.5gr Titegroup and they are working better. Also interesting if you look at the test results I linked is that the Nobel had the lowest standard deviation and extreme spread of the 3 primers. IOW more consistent

 

So, after reading the comments, I feel I have to add my experience with 688s, since that is all i have been loading for 2 years. I load the same load in gc, sts, fed. HOA and the cheap winchester hulls, which I use for throw aways. 18.7 red dot, 1 1/8oz. with Windjammer wad. Crushes clays at 16, and works great for skeet, sporting clays and 5 stand. I have shot in 90° heat and mid to low 20° cold here in Pennsylvania, and have not seen a difference. I also load winchester super handicap duplicate loads with waa12 wads for 27 and cutthroat. Same 688 primers. Never had one issue in about 8k. I currently have roughly 36k left. I was able to get 10k for $420.00. So I bought 4 cases. I have no way of testing pressure but I shoot them out of several different gun without anything crazy happening. Hope this helps. I know this is an old thread.