Check the crown on your rifle. Q tips are very handy for this.

 

How does a Q tip check a crown? Just a visual check of the crown
shows no problem, looks good.

 

Wrong bullet length and weight

 

That should not be a problem, the bullets as stated were 55 gr and any
barrel should stabilize it. The 783, 223 has a fast twist, 9 inch, and should be
able to handle up to 77 grains no problem. So that is not a factor.

I suppose Remington could have got their 22/250 barrels mixed up and
chambered one of those. They have a 14 inch twist, I would think even
those would stabilize a 55 grain bullet.

 

Agreed. A 1:9 needs heavier bullets (and they would be longer). That rifle is designed to use heavier, hunting type bullets.

Scott Hanes

 

Rather than relying on what "should be," try some heavier bullets and see what happens.

Or shoot what you have at 100 yards and see what happens.

But remember, you asked for people's thoughts. And they've given them to you.

If the barrel isn't damaged then the next most likely suspect is the bullet.

To insist that it should be OK, when you have evidence that it isn't, makes me wonder why you asked the question.

Just try some 62 grain bullets.

 

You don't have to agree with me you are free to remain opinionated, as if you know it all. You asked for advice and the advice I gave you is accurate and you can do as you please with it. nitro27man, agrees with me and he spent his life working for Remington so believe what you wish. The bottom line is that the bullets that you are shooting are not stabilized and the obvious problem is too fast of twist for your bullets. If there was a slight burr on the crown by shoddy machining it usually burns off from shooting it. The rate of twist incorrect for the bullets your shooting won't ever correct itself.

 

You don't have to agree with me you are free to remain opinionated, as if you know it all. You asked for advice and the advice I gave you is accurate and .....

Look, I am not trying to pick a fight, but I never asked for advice.
On the other hand some speculations were made, and I find
them interesting, but my main thought is that this is a rare
thing that happened, and wanted to talk about it and I wondered
if anyone else ever had a new rifle do this.

Now you guys may be right that I need a heavier bullet, but it is against
everything I have ever came across in so far as twist rates and bullet
weights go. When the twist is wrong, to the point that the bullet
keyholes, the culprit is always the bullet not spinning enough. If
the twist is adequate, enough twist, that is, and the bullet keyholes,
my thought is that something else is wrong, like:
(1) bullet is undersized, and not getting spin imparted.
(2) bullet is way out of balance, so it wobbles when spinning.
(3) muzzle is loose fit or worn, and lets bullet flop around upon exit.

Look when you don't have enough twist, it appears as the bullets
get heavier. Once it does appear, you can't solve it by making the
bullets heavier yet. Like when the 308 first came out, they gave it a 12
inch twist, instead of 10 like the 30-06 had. So the 308 in those
days had problems with stabilizing anything above 200. So someone
trying a 220 grain bullet might find that it keyholes, to fix it, he can't
go to a heavier bullet, that is already his problem, his bullet is too
heavy already, he has to go to a lighter bullet.

This should all work out in the next couple days, and we can
quit guessing, maybe.

 

My plan is the same right now, shoot it tomorrow and try to isolate
whether it is the bullet or the barrel. If I have no problems with this
ammo in my AR, and if the 783 keyholes the other source of 55 grain
bullets, I am calling Remington to see what they say. If they say I need
heavier bullets, then I will give them a try, but this makes no sense to
me. The only problems I have ever heard of on spinning a bullet too
fast, is the bullet deconstructing from the centrifugal force. Supposedly
some bullets did that fired in a 220 Swift up around 4000 fps and the
the spin on those bullets was incredible.

Besides a 55 grain bullet is not really light in a .224 bullet. They go
as low as 40 grains. In fact, I would bet that a 40 grain should not
keyhole when fired in a 9 inch twist.

A phone call is easier than buying a bunch of bullets, loading them,
going to the range, shooting them and checking the results.
It is probably easier to check the twist of the barrel than to try
heavier bullets. Is the twist really 9 inches in this gun?

My guess at present is the bullet is the problem. That is only a guess.

 

How long are the bullets you're using?

 

1in 9 twist isn't your problem. Keyholing is usually caused by to heavy or long of a bullet and to slow rate of twist. Think you'll run into that real quick if you try a77 smk or a 75 amax. See if you can find someone with a bore scope and have them take a look. You just might get a suprise.

 

When ever I put 2 shots in the same hole I use the term key hole....looks like I have been using it incorrectly all this time.

 

Before you get bent out of shape try some factory ammo.

 

I don't think the 1-9" twist is the problem because there are thousands of 1-8" and 1-9" twist AR-15 rifles out there that don't have any problems shooting 40 gr to 55 gr lead bullets.

The only key holing that I have seen was a 223 Rem with a 1-12" twist shooting the real long 55 gr lead free bullets. I have a 1-8" twist 22-250 and a 223 AI in 1-8" twist for shooting the longer lead free bullets.

 

Did you measure the barrel? HMB

 

COLT Target H-BAR rifles have a 1 in 7 twist barrel and they shoot 55 gr bullets just fine. As do 12 twist barrels. It is not the twist.

Sometime junk bullets are just junk bullets. Try something of a known quality.


If it will not shoot plain USA made factory ammo, don't mess with it, Remington needs to get it back.

 

I think you have something going on unrelated to rate of twist. Get some new factory ammo of known quality and give it a whirl. 9" is a good rate for the majority of .22 bullets except the ultra heavies( even then the big boys should still be somewhat stable at 75').

 

you can run a tight patch down the bore to confirm twist rate, but a 9 or 12 or even a 14 would shoot 55's just fine

 

I would suggest you VERIFY that rifle's twist before you do anything. Google is your friend. The gun, if it has a 1-9" twist, will shoot the 55 gr military lead core projectile well if the barrel is properly constructed. After twist is verified, then look for imperfections in the barrel, from throat to crown.

The surplus bullets are engineered to shoot in about any 223 class cartridge, regardless of twist, from 1-14" to 1-7". There was a lot of thought and care in their design. They are spit out in huge quantities very quickly, so they are not match bullets, but they should average an inch or so at 100 yds.

If the bullets were damaged from a collet puller, that will be evident upon close examination.

I have seen some strange things come out of gun boxes. Once ran into a ANIB 30/30 with a 1-18" twist. Guess what? It keyholed factory ammo big time. Solution? 125 gr flat points and handloads. Won't mention the brand, but it was not an offbrand. I have not a clue how that gun got out of the factory.

 

When ever I put 2 shots in the same hole I use the term key hole....looks like I have been using it incorrectly all this time.

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/g/definition-of-keyhole-bullet-keyholing.htm

Here's a description

good shooting

DGH

 

Definition of Keyhole, Key Hole, or Keyholed Bullet

Here's a description

good shooting

DGH

Thanks....so what is that called when you punch through the same hole twice ?

 

These days I seriously doubt you will find anyone at Remington with any real knowledge of what will work in your rifle, and you will get an uneducated useless opinion on why it should work just fine with their brand of ammo, and it may if the bullet you are using is crap, what works in one gun may be useless in others.

 

IMO it is the cheap surplus ammo you have purchased. It may be steel core/copper jacket which will be longer and have potential to keyhole. Pull one of those and see what they look like. You should just buy a box of nice factory ammo in similar grain and I'm going to bet you will be fine. I've purchased surplus military ammo and have had terrible results.

No sense in even worrying about it until you get some better ammo. Borrow some from a friend if need be. Then post a big reply "It was the ammo."

 

1) Historically the 223/5.56 round in the AR-15/M-16 rifle has been known to key-hole. Some claim it was designed that way to inflict more damage to those hit by the round, others claim it to be a design fault.

2) 223/55.6 rifles come is SO many different twist rates (typically from 1:7 to 1:12 - but there are outliers to even these) - worth checking YOUR rifle. I know you say it is 1:9, but are you sure??

3) Bullet source can matter - from length, to BC, to ogive the size/shape/weight will all impact how it travels downrange.

You have been given good advice - check the crown, check the twist rate, if you have cerro-safe you can check the camber. Don't be afraid to try different bullets/ammo in the rifle.

I know of two Browning A-bolts in 223 - bought form the same shop at the same time. One ONLY shoots Sako's 223 hunting ammo (forget the weight), the other will put basically anything through a single hole.

 

Pretty sure that he's loading the ammunition himself.

The place he mentions getting the bullets from in the OP doesn't sell loaded ammunition.

Welcome to Bartlett Reloaders - Jeff Bartlett

They could be pulled bullets, but the description doesn't sound like they are.

"55 gr. These are brand new, major brand, 55gr bullets w/c. Gilding metal jacket (non-
Ball magnetic) with lead core. None better than these. Quantity of 6000 shipped
M193 in military ammo can. Soft Points also available."

The only reasons to surplus new components is that the contract has closed, or they didn't meet spec.

 

I had the exact same problem with a Savage rifle, 9" twist. I tried everything including talking to Hornady. Everything in the rifle and bullets checked out fine. Finally in desperation I went to heavy bullets. Problem solved! Now the rifle is one of my P dog guns and shoots great with 60 grain Hornady bullets. I don't care what the rifle experts say about not over stability go to a heavy bullet before you do anything else.

 

Well I just got back to this this morning, and I think I found the
problem.

As a navigator, I have known that in order to know where you
are, you have to start from a known point. If you start from
an unknown point, it makes no difference how accurate you
keep track of heading and speed etc, you just are not going
to know where you are.

So I pulled a bullet, and measured it. Looked to be .226 with
my vernier caliper and it weighed 55 grain. That bullet should
stabilize in a proper barrel.

Next I took a cleaning rod and checked the twist. My measurement
was 13.5 inches. I am probably off a half inch there. They have
used a barrel with 14 inch twist like they do on their 22/250
models. This thing is supposed to be 9 inch twist. Note the twist
on this Remington web page of their 223:
Model 783 CAMO

I will get to the range pretty soon and do some comparisons
with my AR15, but it looks pretty evident right now what the
problem is, If it is as it looks right now, trying those heavier
bullets was just as I suspected. going to be a complete waste
of time. Maybe I will post some pictures of the keyholed
targets also.

 

Look, I am not trying to pick a fight, but I never asked for advice.

So right now it looks like you would have been better off figuring it out yourself, and letting all of these people that have responded know what the problem was before they ever knew there was a problem.

"Has anyone else here ever had a brand new gun do this?"

No.

 

I agree with the twist is not your issue camp I have 223/5.56 rifles 1-7,1-8,1-9 and 1-12 that will shoot 10rd. groups all around an inch@50yds with 55gr bulk Hornady projectile reloads when I do my part.

I only use Hornady bulk, in my testing they are the gold standard in in cheap/affordable bulk. I have not even made an attempt for ultimate accuracy, plinking and 3gun fodder only for me.

Try 1 box of factory Remington 55gr. ammo or Federal or PMC and see if it shoots if not get a call tag and send it back. With the Remmys they can't say ammo issue.

I have 1 rifle that really liked Remmys factory 55gr. ammo I bought on a deal mostly just for the brass.

Post the outcome however it goes.