Where do you guys buy the pigeon/flyer loads? I am looking at 1 1/4 oz. 7 1/2 shot. I know the old load has always been rated at 1220 fps and today many of them are 1300-1350 fps. Any advantage or disadvantages on one over the other. Where do you find these loads and what brand is considered the upper end....Remington, Rio, Fiocchi, Winchester, Federal ???? Thanks in advance for the info.
deercreek
Live Pigeon / Flyer Loads Where to Buy ???
Rodgers Sporting Goods had some great 3 1/4-1 1/4 nickel plated lead Fiocchi shells. They were for ZZ bird or Helice. Appears they are out. They have several other shells that would be suitable.
http://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/ammunition/fioccho-lead.html?___SID=U
They have the lead 1 1/4oz in 7 1/2s in stock for $109 per case
The Federal Pigeon shells are great as well and they are out of those
http://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/ammunition/federal-lead.html
http://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/ammunition/fioccho-lead.html?___SID=U
They have the lead 1 1/4oz in 7 1/2s in stock for $109 per case
The Federal Pigeon shells are great as well and they are out of those
http://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/ammunition/federal-lead.html
Scott, not in upper level. I enjoy it but time and money prevented traveling the circuit to play. I kept in touch with the game through friends. Troy is an old friend from his trapshooting days. Jerry Diggs told me he would take me underwing and teach me his way. Of course Taylor.
Do not used nickel plated shot for pigeon/flyer loads for two reasons:
1. They go right through the bird, and if no bones are broken the bird could fly out of the ring. (No bull, personal experience).
2. The nickel coating over the lead shot actually reduces the diameter, so a 7 1/2 might not be a full 7 1/2 but a bit smaller.
3. I don't know about copper plated Federals, but I have used them and they kick like a mule.
My recommendations are RST shells in 3 1/2 dram 1 1/4 high antimony shot load in paper. They recoil less, and are very effective, although somewhat expensive at about $11.00 a box, although in box live bird competition, you won't use many shells. Once you use them you will swear by them.
1. They go right through the bird, and if no bones are broken the bird could fly out of the ring. (No bull, personal experience).
2. The nickel coating over the lead shot actually reduces the diameter, so a 7 1/2 might not be a full 7 1/2 but a bit smaller.
3. I don't know about copper plated Federals, but I have used them and they kick like a mule.
My recommendations are RST shells in 3 1/2 dram 1 1/4 high antimony shot load in paper. They recoil less, and are very effective, although somewhat expensive at about $11.00 a box, although in box live bird competition, you won't use many shells. Once you use them you will swear by them.
One more thing, overseas where they shoot pigeon in the open, and not persecuted by the "green squadrons", the regular shooters use 4 dram loads at 1400 fps and swear by them.
I think 1220 fps is too slow for fast moving birds, and you must go 1300 fps to 1400, depending on your recoil resistance. Or you can shoot first barrel a slower shell, and second barrel a faster shell, like some shooters do, where you are not required to shoot both barrels, for safety reasons. PS: The greater the velocity the greater the shot spread, so you will have a better pattern with slower shells, and not the 4 dram 1400 fps shoulder killers. The 3 1/2 dram load is the best, for 1 1/4 shot for live box birds, and paper makes a big difference in felt recoil.
I think 1220 fps is too slow for fast moving birds, and you must go 1300 fps to 1400, depending on your recoil resistance. Or you can shoot first barrel a slower shell, and second barrel a faster shell, like some shooters do, where you are not required to shoot both barrels, for safety reasons. PS: The greater the velocity the greater the shot spread, so you will have a better pattern with slower shells, and not the 4 dram 1400 fps shoulder killers. The 3 1/2 dram load is the best, for 1 1/4 shot for live box birds, and paper makes a big difference in felt recoil.
Piles of flyers killed with Rem flyer load 1220 and Win Super Pigeon 1220 there were some great shooters that used those loads for years. I'd take an even pattern with the hardest shot I could find before I worried about velocity. Some guys like Federal P155 1400fps while others will shoot the Federal Pheasants forever 1500fps load, some can get by with a standard Handi Cap trap load. While many mention the RST load couple things come up, first Alex has left RST
recently they couldn't get the normal powder and right now are using RIO single base powder that recoils differently than there old stand by loads. At the end of the day a shooter could get by with Top Gun Ammo if he hot cored em.
Don't overlook Winchester http://tinyurl.com/pfsbt7v
Of course mileage may vary from shooter to shooter.
recently they couldn't get the normal powder and right now are using RIO single base powder that recoils differently than there old stand by loads. At the end of the day a shooter could get by with Top Gun Ammo if he hot cored em.
Don't overlook Winchester http://tinyurl.com/pfsbt7v
Of course mileage may vary from shooter to shooter.
eightbore
I really liked the RST papers in 3 1/2 and 1 1/4 strictly because they recoil a lot less, pattern much better and they do go over the 1300 fps like their 3 3/4 extra speed, that we measured properly with several shells in 7 1/2 shot size. The pattern of 3 1/2 was much better than the 3 3/4 I bought several cases and still have one case and have not bought recently, and I didn't know that they have changed their powder. But the lead high antimony (5 - 6%) shells where easy to shoot, and the pattern was excellent. In Europe you can purchase so many different brands, packed in 1o shell boxes, that is a pleasure, buy sadly many of them are not imported in the US, like Maonchi (Italian).
I did try the Italian Clever's Mirage electrocibele 3 3/4 pigeon loads, 1360 fps in plastic, and found them excellent, but they do kick more than the RST papers, in 3 1/2. I shot the same RST's in 3 3/4 dram plastic and found the recoil quite intolerable. B & P makes a good less recoil 3 3/4 pigeon shell, but it is nickel plated, and only appropriate for field or hand thrown, as they go right through the bird, remember you must used lead shot for the first barrel, I learnt that the hard way, after thinking it was bushu.
In the US the Remington STS pigeon loads 3 1/4 and 1 /4 are sweet for the first shot, and will kill tough pigeons with winter feathers, and you can use Federals or others for the second shot in 3 3/4.
Many shooters like the AA 3 1/4 which has a lesser recoil perception ( in my experience cause I have a soft shoulder) which in the summer is another option, but I will not use for faster zurritos birds in Spain, Portugal or Mexico. In Mexico I shot the 4 dram Aguila which the Mexican shooters swear by, you need a rubber teeth guard for recoil, and I though that the pattern had many holes, or the Mexicans forgot to put pellets in some shells. lol. The yellow Armusa (Spanish) brand is a very consistent shell with lower recoil.
The best shells where the made in Texas Estate before they where bought out, and have some friends that bought hundreds of cases before they where sold, but now forget about what they produce now. The last US world Cup winner Randy Ramsay swears by the 4 dram loads, at 1400 fps but he is a big guy and can handle the recoil.
I really liked the RST papers in 3 1/2 and 1 1/4 strictly because they recoil a lot less, pattern much better and they do go over the 1300 fps like their 3 3/4 extra speed, that we measured properly with several shells in 7 1/2 shot size. The pattern of 3 1/2 was much better than the 3 3/4 I bought several cases and still have one case and have not bought recently, and I didn't know that they have changed their powder. But the lead high antimony (5 - 6%) shells where easy to shoot, and the pattern was excellent. In Europe you can purchase so many different brands, packed in 1o shell boxes, that is a pleasure, buy sadly many of them are not imported in the US, like Maonchi (Italian).
I did try the Italian Clever's Mirage electrocibele 3 3/4 pigeon loads, 1360 fps in plastic, and found them excellent, but they do kick more than the RST papers, in 3 1/2. I shot the same RST's in 3 3/4 dram plastic and found the recoil quite intolerable. B & P makes a good less recoil 3 3/4 pigeon shell, but it is nickel plated, and only appropriate for field or hand thrown, as they go right through the bird, remember you must used lead shot for the first barrel, I learnt that the hard way, after thinking it was bushu.
In the US the Remington STS pigeon loads 3 1/4 and 1 /4 are sweet for the first shot, and will kill tough pigeons with winter feathers, and you can use Federals or others for the second shot in 3 3/4.
Many shooters like the AA 3 1/4 which has a lesser recoil perception ( in my experience cause I have a soft shoulder) which in the summer is another option, but I will not use for faster zurritos birds in Spain, Portugal or Mexico. In Mexico I shot the 4 dram Aguila which the Mexican shooters swear by, you need a rubber teeth guard for recoil, and I though that the pattern had many holes, or the Mexicans forgot to put pellets in some shells. lol. The yellow Armusa (Spanish) brand is a very consistent shell with lower recoil.
The best shells where the made in Texas Estate before they where bought out, and have some friends that bought hundreds of cases before they where sold, but now forget about what they produce now. The last US world Cup winner Randy Ramsay swears by the 4 dram loads, at 1400 fps but he is a big guy and can handle the recoil.
Like most shooting stuff, what you believe works is more important than anything else.
I've watched Randy Ramsay kill birds with a 28ga that I bet vital body parts wasn't pounding out 4dr or 1 1/4oz. but the birds were just as dead.
I've watched Randy Ramsay kill birds with a 28ga that I bet vital body parts wasn't pounding out 4dr or 1 1/4oz. but the birds were just as dead.
I always felt the zurrito is like a cottontail bunny very easy to kill they just need that pounding. I think an old homer can take a pile of lead and keep on truck'n compared to a zurrito. Of course i'd never do an in home necropsy report either to see if lead, copper plated, nickle plated shot was any better than the next load. As for RST they use Lawrence magnum shot.
Attachments
Semperfi909
Randy can shoot a BB gun and still send the birds to pigeon heaven, and you are right, he used to shoot the circuit in California with a 30" Beretta 682 in 28 gauge. He also used Federals copper plated, with a speed of 1275 fps, and it took two shots to score 23 out of 25. In 12 gauge he does prefers 1400 fps, and he uses 8 1/2 for the first shot which is debatable, but you can't argue with success, specially with the smaller zurritos birds.
Another Spanish shells I forgot to mention are the J & G and Rios which many international shooters prefer to use for zurritos.
At Malloy's when it was open, I saw some shooters win with AA 3 1/4 1 1/4 loads, but those where slow American park pigeons, that you can't compare with the race quality zurritos, that fly 50 miles back and forth to their feed lots.
Randy can shoot a BB gun and still send the birds to pigeon heaven, and you are right, he used to shoot the circuit in California with a 30" Beretta 682 in 28 gauge. He also used Federals copper plated, with a speed of 1275 fps, and it took two shots to score 23 out of 25. In 12 gauge he does prefers 1400 fps, and he uses 8 1/2 for the first shot which is debatable, but you can't argue with success, specially with the smaller zurritos birds.
Another Spanish shells I forgot to mention are the J & G and Rios which many international shooters prefer to use for zurritos.
At Malloy's when it was open, I saw some shooters win with AA 3 1/4 1 1/4 loads, but those where slow American park pigeons, that you can't compare with the race quality zurritos, that fly 50 miles back and forth to their feed lots.
These have always worked well for me. Bought a pallet load years ago and they will probably last me to the end.
Steve View attachment 255682
Steve View attachment 255682
Don't know this personally (haven't shot pigeons in YEARS) but, my friends tell me the Sporting Clay 1300 FPS Remington Nitros work well and I tend to believe them. I HAVE patterned these and shot them in "protection" fun shoots. Seem to be a great load .
Had a friend who shot depending on the venue and bird both 1-1/8 or 1-1/4 8's on the first shot with a more open choke. His reasoning was to cover the bird with shot to slow it down and the kill it with his second barrel. Seemed to work very well fom him winning many shoots on the domestic and international stage. California flyer shooters who were around twenty years ago know whom I'm speaking of.
Surfer
Surfer
STS Flyer load was discontinued. Winchester has their white wing SP to replace there 3 1/4dr flyer load
Recoil is not a problem when shooting in Mexico or Europe, with one bird per ring, you've got time to shake it off during the walk to the next ring. You don't see many pure Zuritos any more, mostly bluebars everywhere.
And most guys will never stand where Joe is in his avatar. You don't need TNT to kill a pigeon you need to hot core them first and foremost. If you can manage 80% of your birds with the first barrel bonus. Learn to ground swat that is where I see many birds go unscathed. Then again what do I know.
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