I own 2 Perazzi trap guns that were both bought as used guns and proofed in 1982. I live in Canada and can perform most repairs by myself. If I had Krieghoff guns instead I would have to send them in someplace for their Annual because they have a million parts and sending anything to the U.S. is very difficult because of political restrictions.

 

When did we start having essay questions?

 

When the cost of ammo got so expensive we can only afford to talk about shooting

 

1. Comparable

2. Perazzi, by far. The biggest “issue” are V springs breaking. You solve that by keeping a $200 set of replacement springs and firing pins in your bag, and swap them yourself in < 5 min. Or order your gun with coil springs. Kreighoffs are not user-serviceable. A breakdown at a major shoot gets you a trip to the vendor tent. Anywhere else, it’s a trip to UPS.

For anything you don’t want to do yourself, there are tons of competent Perazzi smiths all over the country, and at shoots big and small.

3. In the past, I’d have said Krieghoff, but P-USA seems improved these days. Win to Krieghoff or a tie, at best.

4. Own 5 Perazzis (had 6 before gifting one to my dad) and zero Krieghoff.

 

2. Perazzi, by far. The biggest “issue” are V springs breaking. You solve that by keeping a $200 set of replacement springs and firing pins in your bag, and swap them yourself in < 5 min.

I'd like to make remarks on this statement.

a) The V spring itself is around $45~50 depend on where you get it from. The street price for the whole kit is around $150 if you keep your eyes on TS.

b) To change a cracked V spring might take couple minutes the first time, it'll be most likely a one minute or less job for the second time.

c) To replace a firing pin might take you 10~15 minutes.

Can't do that on the other gun in this discussion.
BTW, I don't argue with success, nor people who swear by their belief, but you "almost" never see the other gun in the Olympics, not to mention on the podium.

 

Google an exploded diagram of a K-80 and an MX-8. That will tell you all you need to know about reliability and serviceability. The K guys will dispute the point, but many of them stay reliable because they get shipped across the country regularly for “annual” maintenance.

 

Krieghoff

 

My wife shoots a Perazzi and I shoot a Krieghoff although I have shot a Perazzi in the past. The reason that I changed was a better stock fit. That is now mute because we both have Pro Soft stocks. She uses a double release trigger and carries an extra, $ 1,600, because of leaf spring breakage. It is a lot easier to swap triggers out, than replace a spring in a release trigger in the middle of a match. Her MX-2000 requires locking block work or replacement from time to time, and the locking lever has been replaced. I have had my K-80 Trap Special for about 12 years. During that period I have had 2 springs replaced and the knurled wheel that adjusts the rib split in two. Yes, I have the recommended maintenance performed about every other year, usually at a shoot. All in all I would say that the Krieghoff has been more trouble free. As for shooting results, my wife usually beats me, and a lot of other people also. Somewhere I heard that it's the Indian not the arrow.

 

1. For quality, meaning good fit and finish, it's a tie. However, I think the Perazzi MX8 is a much better design (MX12, too). It's much simpler, and the way it's designed, it's much easier to work on and is user-serviceable for many things; in this way, it's like the Glock 17 of the target shotgun world. The Krieghoff is unnecessarily complicated, with circlips on every pin (ugh). It requires special tools to work on that aren't readily available to the public, and parts are expensive...pretty much the opposite of user-serviceable, and service is expensive.

2. Probably about the same, with the following caveat: If anything needs maintenance or breaks, the Krieghoff is going to be much more expensive and will likely require a gunsmith to work on; the Perazzi will often be much cheaper and much can be done by the user.
Perazzi leaf springs get a bad rap (I haven't broken any of mine over the past 6-7 years), but even if one did break, it's a $25-50 part that can be replaced by the user in about 5 minutes; a quick swap and you're back on the line. If that's not quick enough for you, you can carry around a spare trigger and swap it in seconds. If a coil hammer spring ever breaks on a Krieghoff K80/Model 32, you might as well pack your crap, because you're done for the day. If you've got a firing pin problem, same thing; the Perazzi can be fixed in minutes (pull the stock, drift one pin halfway out, swap pins), the Krieghoff is going to require several more steps that most users will probably find too daunting and end up sending to a gunsmith. Swapping out hammer springs on Krieghoffs requires a special tool not commonly available to the public, which means you're going to have to pay a gunsmith (probably shipping it off) for beaucoup bucks and who knows how many weeks.
As a gun wears and the lever moves to the right, on a Perazzi, you typically replace the lever spring and fit a new locking block, something that a user can do on their own in a few hours (about $75-100 for the fixture, and about $80-120 for the new locking block). On a Krieghoff, you've got a couple options. Option A is fitting a new lever spring and an oversized top latch (about $200 at the cheapest for the part alone). If that doesn't work, Option B is welding up and recutting the sides of the barrel monobloc where it mates with the top latch...this also requires rebluing the barrel...BIG bucks.

3. I'd say Krieghoff, mainly because I've never had to rely on Perazzi USA for anything. Krieghoff is very responsive to questions and I've heard they're great for sending guns to for relatively quick service and repair; that said, you're definitely paying for it. I've never had to send a gun to Perazzi USA or order parts from them, but folks at Perazzi in Italy have been fantastic about answering sometimes obscure questions about even out of production Perazzi models within a day or two. There are several gunsmiths out there who do good work on both.

4. I tried both and ended up selling the Krieghoff. I'm pretty happy about that, since I was dreading the cost of even minor routine maintenance work on the Krieghoff. To me, Perazzis just seem to feel more light and easier to move; the Krieghoff felt more ponderous, with weight more foreward toward the muzzle (same barrel length for both, same PFS stocks on both). I think it'd be a lot easier to make my Perazzi feel like a Krieghoff than a Krieghoff feel like a Perazzi (then again, I haven't tried a K-80 with Parcours barrels).

 

When a gun breaks down on the line 8/10 times it’s a Perazzi. Breaks the rhythm of the squad while triggers are swapped out and the shooter picks up empty hulls to dry fire the gun.
I heard some of the newer squadding software will have a NP next to the squad number meaning No Perazzis.

 

Never heard the the NP statement ANYWHERE. I belong to two clubs, and have shot at least 10 more including the Calif State shoot and no-one EVER said No Perazzis. Heck, 75% of the good shooters out here shoot P guns. And yes, I've owned a Kolar and still own a K80 that is going for sale soon.

 

+1 Krieghoff!

 

I've had several of both. It's K gun for me. Super reliable, excellent service AND higher resale than P guns. Perazzi confuses the shooting community by having 50 different names for the same 2 guns and this really hurts their resale. A K80 is a K80 is a K80, even though there may be different variations, the model name remains.

 

NUFF said.

 

I’ll elaborate just a bit...While those are legitimate questions to ask at the end of the day they are both excellent guns but have a vastly different feel. Further you can’t make a general statement about the fit and handling characteristics of a Perazzi because they can vary dramatically even for the same model of gun. Most factory choked Perazzi’s that I’ve shot have felt god awful barrel/muzzle heavy. So the take away is that these guns are going to have vastly different “fit/feel” and that should be the primary determining factor. Lastly, you would be hard pressed to beat Krieghoff service.

 

K gun

 

Good thread OG. Especially for someone like me who wants to own a P or K someday.

 

I like my P guns and have shot them for over a decade.
I haven't tried a k gun because I'm satisfied with the quality and performance of Perazzi.
Funny / ironic
Two different K 80 triggers failed at the spring grand.
One was a Canadian on my squad and the other in the shoot-off for sub-vet singles championship. After a leingthly delay both forfeited.
Henry

 

this is all my personal opinion and nothing more than that. I favor buying a Perazzi' -

many Kgun shooters either have an extra receiver (which all barrels have been fitted to) or an extra gun because there is no such thing as a simple / quick repair on those guns.

I don't really like how the Kguns feel. I like how Pguns move to a target. But lots of very good trapshooters feel that same way about Kguns.

It is only 82 miles from my house to Ottsville so annual maintenance work or even repairs would not be a hardship for me but that is not true for everyone. But the Pguns can be maintained at home and without special tools. If one is not certain how to do something on a Pgun, check out YouTube.

 

this is all my personal opinion and nothing more than that. I favor buying a Perazzi' -

many Kgun shooters either have an extra receiver (which all barrels have been fitted to) or an extra gun because there is no such thing as a simple / quick repair on those guns.

I don't really like how the Kguns feel. I like how Pguns move to a target. But lots of very good trapshooters feel that same way about Kguns.

It is only 82 miles from my house to Ottsville so annual maintenance work or even repairs would not be a hardship for me but that is not true for everyone. But the Pguns can be maintained at home and without special tools. If one is not certain how to do something on a Pgun, check out YouTube. View attachment 1798579

Quite the lineup! Is the O/U a 2008?

 

I have owned both, like them equally as well. Like many have said, Perazzi's are a simpler gun. In my experience using them Perazzi's have broken maybe 4 springs, replaced firing pins, top lever spring and a locking block, Krieghoff one spring on the barrel selector. I do not have a regular maintenance program for the Krieghoff, ever so often 3-5 years I will let one of the gunsmiths I trust look them over.There are a lot more qualified K gunsmiths than most people know about, that do very good work and are reasonable priced.
Both great guns

Buster

 

IMO a lot of people are put off by Krieghoff’s need for “annual” service. The truth is for most people that’s every three years based on annual rounds shot.

 

Another Vote for Krieghoff.

Most folks who like a Perazzi seems to pick them so they can do all the work on them to save money. But the V-springs do not make them reliable. Coil springs do not break. They wear out slowly over time. If you have your K-gun serviced every 30,000 rounds. You'll likely not need much of any other service. Locking blocks on Perazzi's have to replaced every 60,000 rounds. Since Krieghoff has a 10 year bumper to bumper warranty. Anything that breaks on your K-gun is repaired for free. No charge!!! Most of the internal parts not included in the "annual parts package", are also warrantied for life. So Yes, you'll pay $350 every 30,000 or so. But you don't have to pay for parts or labor for 10 years. If you have your 30,000 round annual done at a major shoot, you don't have to pay for shipping to have your gun worked on. Will Perazzi repair your new P-gun free for 10 years??? Now if you own a P-gun, You better watch some u-tubes on how to work on your gun. Then you need to buy repair kits and learning how to work on your P-gun. Maybe even buy a spare trigger group for your quality/dependable gun. Like a dozen confusing models/types. The P-guns locking block runs about $700 or so I hear to have repaired about every 60,000 rounds. Which seems to mimic the cost of the K-gun every 30,000 rounds when you break it down. Of course your doing all your own work and buying new V-springs every year at 50 bucks per year. So which gun cost more to shoot every year now??? So how much are you really saving by doing all your own work???
Since most every shooters will carry Guns and Trophy insurance on their P-gun or K-gun. You can ship your gun anywhere without having to pay for insurance from your carrier. Which is always higher than the shipping cost. So shipping is not a major factor if your K-gun does break down between annuals.
Now for the real biggie. K-gun owners never have to worry about their side ribs, or top ribs falling off their shotguns!!! Since K-guns all have hot-soldered ribs, while P-gun use cold soldering. Heat your barrels up by shooting too much, and the ribs fall off. That's not quality in my book!!! How much does Perazzi charge to fix their ribs, when they fall off???
Now that K-guns come with 3 different weight barrels, you can't tell me how slow a K-gun barrel is now. Now go out there and pick your shotgun and barrel weight and break some clays. break em all Jeff

 

First, you can get Perazzis with coil spring triggers too, so the leaf spring argument (overblown as it is, BTW) doesn't hold water.

Second, fitting an oversize latch (or welding up the monobloc) and a new top lever spring might be $700 job on a K80, but fitting a new locking block and top lever spring on a Perazzi is waaay cheaper. Don Rackley charges $325 (Don Rackley's Gun Parts - Online Store) and I think Phillip Crenwelge charges about $300. If you do it yourself, you're looking at about $130 for a locking block and spring.
So let's look at 10 years worth of shooting costs, using your numbers, assuming someone shoots 30k rounds per year (far more than I shoot, but some folks do):
Krieghoff 30k round/annually is $350 + $75 shipping x 10 = $4250.
Perazzi new locking ever 60k rounds is $325 + $75 shipping x 5 = $2000. Or, if you do it yourself, $130 x 5 = $650.
So over 10 years, your "free" warranty Krieghoff will cost 2-6 times as much to maintain as a Perazzi.
If you compare downtime for sending a Krieghoff out, figuring a 2-week turnaround time vs doing it yourself on a Perazzi, over 10 years, you're looking at about 2-4 months of downtime for the Krieghoff, vs 10 days for the Perazzi.

Finally, about the side ribs, yeah some Perazzis have had problems, but again, a relatively rare problem that is probably as exaggerated as much as how often K80s blow up. Besides, you can get Perazzis without side ribs. In fact, only one of my five sets of Perazzi barrels has side ribs.

 

Both are excellent guns with long and distinguished competition records.

The question you need to be asking yourself OP, is which gun feels better to you and which will you shoot better.

 

Both are excellent guns with long and distinguished completion records.

The question you need to be asking yourself OP, is which gun feels better to you and which will you shoot better.

That is the answer. Anything else is likely someone trying to justify their own purchase.

 

The "P" gun suits my style.
The "K" gun does not.

The rest is just so much Blah, Blah, Blah.

Its All Good
West

 

For me all of those questions are meaningless. Perazzi makes a beautiful gun. The KG is simply too ugly to be seen with in public.

TabA / SlotB

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

One more thing, at the recent Arizona State Shoot while shooting Doubles, my wife turned to me with the gun in one hand and the rib in the other. It came off completely. Doug Gray was kind enough to load her an o/u barrel for the rest of the shoot. Her barrel is now at Perazzi USA. For the record that barrel was reblued by Giacomo Sporting about 3 years ago. Which brings me to another comment, my experience has been that bluing on Krieghoffs is substantially more durable than on Perazzis.

 

Perazzi by far ….

 

Zoli

 

Germans are good at making touring sedans
Italians are good at making sports cars
If you like Mercedes then K-80
Ferrari or Lamborghini then P-gun

 

Porsche is German...just saying