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Ithaca Flues SBT 4E (2nd Prototype)

7K views 24 replies 10 participants last post by  DavidB55  
#1 ·
I happened to find this old listing and picture of an Ithaca Flues 4E SBT prototype gun today and thought it might be of some interest to those who collect and shoot the Ithaca Flues SBT guns (or just have an interest in these old guns). I have read about, but have never seen, any of the Flues SBT prototype guns. This is not my gun, but I wish it was, talk about collectable! Maybe someone here knows more about this gun or the three (3) other prototypes that might still be out there.

Excerpt from the listing:

".......the acknowledged Ithaca SBT prototypes were 4 in number, 246892-3-4-5. This gun is No. 246893. It is listed in the Walter Snyder, Ithaca Historian, authoritative books “The Ithaca Gun Company” under Historic Ithaca Guns as Ithaca Flues Single, 12 ga., 32” barrel, 2nd prototype, Ser. No. 246893. The Historic Ithaca Guns were in the Ithaca Factory Collection that was sold 6/13/1978 to the Navy Arms Company. It is listed in the Ithacagun Customer Acknowledgement for the sale as MISC. – FIREARM FLUES SINGLE – 2nd PROTOTYPE 1914 S/N 246893 12GA/32” BBL. Actual barrel length is 32 5/8”. The production Flues SBT model was introduced in the 1915 Ithaca catalog. Discussions with several noted Ithaca collectors have failed to document the current existence or configuration of the other 3 prototypes.

The gun is based on the Flues Model double barrel receiver utilizing the bottom bolt of the Flues 3 bolt lock up which was introduced in 1908. The upper part of the receiver is extended to match up with the wide barrel breech. The heavily swagged barrel breech has hand fit pinned metal blocks attached to either side on the bottom to match up with the watertable. The receiver tang maintains the Flues safety slide but it is inoperable. The wide ventilated rib is attached with dough nut/round post type fittings. The triggerplate is a standard Flues double straight grip type with the second trigger position filled in. The gun also features an ejector. The forend is straight, not beavertail, with fleur de leis checkering. Receiver engraving is the fantastic pre-1916 Grade 4 style with tight scrolls and pointer and setter dogs on the sides. Receiver bottom features scroll patterns and a mallard duck in flight. Triggerguard engraving features a woodcock. The trigger is gold plated and the stock has a gold initial shield. LOP is 14.5” and the gun weighs 7.2 lbs."

And here is the lone picture:

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#2 ·
#4 ·
#6 ·
Interesting guns and great photos! I didn't know Flues once made guns under his own name...

I rotate through a few different vintage trap guns in my two trap leagues (sorely missed during the current lockdown), and one of them is a redone "plain vanilla" Ithaca Flues 4E SBT.

Interesting to see that the method of the rib attachment was different on the prototype - and that it had a thumb safety. I also think the prototype had nicer engraving! By the time the production models came along, the safety was gone and the rib was more conventionally attached - and the forearm had become a wide beavertail type (at least mine is).

As I said, mine has been redone. It's a vintage 1919 gun with a 32" barrel and a straight grip - a few photos below.

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#9 ·
Interesting guns and great photos! I didn't know Flues once made guns under his own name...

I rotate through a few different vintage trap guns in my two trap leagues (sorely missed during the current lockdown), and one of them is a redone "plain vanilla" Ithaca Flues 4E SBT.

Interesting to see that the method of the rib attachment was different on the prototype - and that it had a thumb safety. I also think the prototype had nicer engraving! By the time the production models came along, the safety was gone and the rib was more conventionally attached - and the forearm had become a wide beavertail type (at least mine is).

As I said, mine has been redone. It's a vintage 1919 gun with a 32" barrel and a straight grip - a few photos below.

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Tom,

Nice 4E, thanks for sharing. If the case colors were re-done they are excellent (they look right). It's good to hear that you shoot yours. I shoot mine also, just not as good as I would like sometimes.

The early production Flues SBT trap guns could have different engraving patterns with the hunting dogs, etc. before it was standardized like your 4E with the eagle and trapshooter.

There is a member here that has a Flues SBT production gun with a safety, very rare, maybe someone used it as a single shot hunting gun.

Here are a few pics of my early (1915) Flues SBT, with the non-standardized engraving:

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Bob
 
#12 ·
Tom - Just from what I have seen, those could be original case colors. If the case colors are worn around the edges or at the carry points I would say they are original. My 6E and 7E above have their original case colors. Most of the case colors on my 4E are gone, just a hint.

Thanks,
Bob
 
#14 ·
Hello Bob, Drew, Scott, and Tom in PA... always great to see the Ithaca SBT`s! If I remember correctly back around 2011 when I was adding to my collection I inquired about the beautiful E.F. Flues and a special 7E. I believe the Flues went for around 17K and the tooled leather cased 7E went for around 13K... Wish I owned at least one of the special SBT. Both were above my budget... Scott, the rib was engraved several inches...

Sportalluring
 
#15 ·
Hello Randy, good to hear from you along with Drew, Scott and Tom in PA here. Also a shout out to Bill Grill. It’s really great to see the legacy of these fine old Ithaca guns kept alive.

Hope everyone is doing well, we will get through this, better days are ahead.

Bob
 
#18 · (Edited)
Nice and deep engraving on most of those older Guns . I shoot every so often with an 80 some year old Gentleman here from central MD . He has a large collection und I've shot some of the not so high $ guns from his collection .From what I remember they are well ballanced , not as heavy as todays single barrel guns and in some 4 E's the firingpin would not go back all the time .
 
#20 ·
Bob... here are a couple pics of the first year 4E SBT with the tang safety...

Sportalluring

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Thanks Randy, and very well presented!

A beautiful and unique Ithaca treasure to be sure!

I would love to know how the original owner used such gun, maybe it shared time both at the line and in the field. That would be one fancy single shot field gun!

Bob
 
#21 ·
Randy - Is the safety automatic or non-automatic? If non-automatic I would think that could lend some credence to the dual purpose use. If automatic, maybe it was intended more as a field gun? I can't imagine someone taking the safety off 25 times to shoot a round of trap....but my Iver Johnson Supertrap SxS had an automatic safety, that was promptly disabled.

Bob
 
#22 ·
Had the chance to hold and examine one of the original flues sbt guns the owner brought it to a little trap range in ws. And even allowed any one interested to shot it. I believe he said it was #16 out of 19 that was completely hand built by emil flues only using hand tools. The engraving covered everthing on the reciever and even went part way down the barrel, but the most unusual thing was there were no stews or pins holding anything together. Quiet an astonishing bit of workmanship.
 
#23 ·
Randy - Is the safety automatic or non-automatic? If non-automatic I would think that could lend some credence to the dual purpose use. If automatic, maybe it was intended more as a field gun? I can't imagine someone taking the safety off 25 times to shoot a round of trap....but my Iver Johnson Supertrap SxS had an automatic safety, that was promptly disabled.

Bob
Hello Bob... I don`t remember if it sets the safety. I shot a round of trap when I bought it about 13 years ago.
Sorry to say... it hasn`t seen the traps since.

Sportalluring
 
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