[Drew Hause]

Matthew: in order to effectively communicate, it is critical to be precise with our words. Those "big words" have important meaning, which is easy to find on the internet. There ARE "trained medical professionals" here, in several relevant fields, who have reviewed the journal articles related to sports related focal dystonia, and the significant research into golfer's "yips" (much of which took place at ASU and the Mayo Clinic both in Rochester and Scottsdale), which is where the big money lies.
We can share opinions, but the fact is that no one knows the etiology of trapshooter's "flinch". And the fact remains that most flinchers find relief with a release trigger - why no one knows. Those who don't have primarily "visual flinches", but many of those with "visual flinches" find relief with release triggers also - why no one knows.

 

[ronseeleyjr]

Jerry Miculek addresses 'flinching' - no need for release triggers - a function of vision, NOT the trigger finger...

Video

www.facebook.com

I don't know how old the video is, but Joe Goldberg (StockFitter on TS.com) has been saying this same thing for years.

I love it when threads regarding release trigger comes up. The solution is easy. If you don't agree you're an idiot right?

 

[John Henry]

Then, with the occlusion you should no longer need the release.

I use a release for Skeet and Trap, I do not shoot a release when hunting, and sometimes when shooting sporting clays.

Fact is, once I started using a release trigger, I love it so much, I don't want to go back. And if I had a young kid come up to me and say he wanted to be a skeet or trap shooter for life, I would put him on a release trigger right away, and be done with it.

As for the vision thing, I am talking about the way your mind "sees the lead" and how in an instant, there can be doubt. A shooter can start applying pressure to the trigger to fire, have doubt, and not shoot by releasing that pressure before the gun fires. Almost impossible to do that with a release trigger. Once you "think" you are going to shoot, the gun goes off....the instance you start to release any pressure on the trigger, the gun goes off.

That is why I believe a release trigger works for target panic.

 

[F*W*F]

...
As for the vision thing, I am talking about the way your mind "sees the lead" and how in an instant, there can be doubt. A shooter can start applying pressure to the trigger to fire, have doubt, and not shoot by releasing that pressure before the gun fires. Almost impossible to do that with a release trigger. Once you "think" you are going to shoot, the gun goes off....the instance you start to release any pressure on the trigger, the gun goes off.

That is why I believe a release trigger works for target panic.

Yes, and I suspect there are some significant differences between the mind placing an order with a set of muscles (squeeze the trigger) vs cancelling an order (release the trigger).

Larry

 

[Matthew]

Matthew: in order to effectively communicate, it is critical to be precise with our words. Those "big words" have important meaning, which is easy to find on the internet. There ARE "trained medical professionals" here, in several relevant fields, who have reviewed the journal articles related to sports related focal dystonia, and the significant research into golfer's "yips" (much of which took place at ASU and the Mayo Clinic both in Rochester and Scottsdale), which is where the big money lies.
We can share opinions, but the fact is that no one knows the etiology of trapshooter's "flinch". And the fact remains that most flinchers find relief with a release trigger - why no one knows. Those who don't have primarily "visual flinches", but many of those with "visual flinches" find relief with release triggers also - why no one knows.

Thanks for the information Drew. Unfortunately, the way this forum works and it is a necessary evil, one has no idea in most cases who he is talking to and their background. I remember a time I was arguing with an Olympic Gold medal winner representing the U.S. That will make you back down real quick. I felt like a fool but I did not know him and figured it was just another person with definite opinions. Apparently there are some very well educated individuals in this discussion and I’m certainly not one of them so I’ll back out now and just read.

 

[Mike W]

I think that there are multiple reasons for a flinch. Years ago I shot with a shooter who had a flinch which would not allow him to set his release trigger if he shouldered the gun. It was so bad that he had to set the trigger before he closed the action on his Perazzi. He told me that he could only shoot the Perazzi because that was the only gun which would allow him to do that. Unfortunately I do not remember his name. I do think that in most cases the flinch is the body's reaction to recoil. I have been shooting for over 30 years and only flinched a few times, and in every case I lost sight of the target. What I have done over my career is to use recoil devices on my shotguns, either an automatic in the beginning or Soft-Touch stocks and later Precision Fit Stocks. If shooters would start out using devices to reduce recoil most would not develop a flinch. Once the flinch occurs on a regular basis the release trigger is the only solution. I have seen new shooters who used handicap loads for their singles shooting and often they developed a flinch after shooting them for a short time. They did not have visual problems, but rather a reaction to heavy recoil.

 

[Jusanothajoe]

The two sides seem to be, recoil induced or visual problem.
I flinch shooting all disciplines of flying targets and now shoot a release/pull trigger.
I have NEVER flinched hunting and only use pull triggers while hunting.
What happens to the recoil or visual problems when I'm hunting?

 

[visible chip]

The two sides seem to be, recoil induced or visual problem.
I flinch shooting all disciplines of flying targets and now shoot a release/pull trigger.
I have NEVER flinched hunting and only use pull triggers while hunting.
What happens to the recoil or visual problems when I'm hunting?

The recoil and visual problems are over powered by the element of surprise when hunting? I don't know, but it sounds as good as any other theory to me.

 

[Gary G.]

Whenever I flinch it is because of a poor mount. I don't doubt that others Flinch for other reasons but for me it's all about the mount.

 

[jeff348]

The two sides seem to be, recoil induced or visual problem.
I flinch shooting all disciplines of flying targets and now shoot a release/pull trigger.
I have NEVER flinched hunting and only use pull triggers while hunting.
What happens to the recoil or visual problems when I'm hunting?

I think the fact that you start with a low unmounted gun helps. Your eyes are able to lock on the target before the barrel gets near the target. I shoot skeet and sporting clays calling for the bird with the gun off my shoulder and do not flinch.

 

[Rem Nut]

I think a flinch is an unconscious reaction to recoil. people that say that recoil does not bother them are full of it, it bothers everyone and is cumulative. poor gun fit contributes to this. After 1000's of rounds, and being hit in the face by recoil, the connection between your trigger finger pulling backwards and being hit in the face or shoulder is made and the brain says NOPE! the reason a release works is because it is a different movement of the trigger finger.

 

[Boss458357]

The recoil and visual problems are over powered by the element of surprise when hunting? I don't know, but it sounds as good as any other theory to me.

My taught is you are not hunting with the gun up, if so we are not hunting to gather
I am the clay target chair at a private preserve we shoot a lot of hunters trap gun down.
What I see is almost no one finches. When we go to doubles or report pairs they are fine on the first target
then flinch on the second one . I usually tell them to drop the gun then go to the second target it seems to
help .

 

[Drew Hause]

Rem Nut: does recoil go away with a release?

 

[jktphd]

I took my last remaining pull trigger gun out yesterday and followed the instructions on the initial post. I shot four boxes with zero flinches. My usual response with a pull trigger gun is to flinch several times per box. I am not going to go back to a pull trigger but this result was interesting. Your results may vary. Sometimes really testing out an idea is the only way to know if it works for you.

 

[Birch1007]

The two sides seem to be, recoil induced or visual problem.
I flinch shooting all disciplines of flying targets and now shoot a release/pull trigger.
I have NEVER flinched hunting and only use pull triggers while hunting.
What happens to the recoil or visual problems when I'm hunting?

You forgot fear of missing. When I shot precision Benchrest I would occasionally flinch on the 4th or 5th shot of a really small group. It wasn’t recoil or visually induced. My flinches in trap are visual.

 

[FarmerMike80]

I think that there are multiple reasons for a flinch. Years ago I shot with a shooter who had a flinch which would not allow him to set his release trigger if he shouldered the gun. It was so bad that he had to set the trigger before he closed the action on his Perazzi. He told me that he could only shoot the Perazzi because that was the only gun which would allow him to do that. Unfortunately I do not remember his name. I do think that in most cases the flinch is the body's reaction to recoil. I have been shooting for over 30 years and only flinched a few times, and in every case I lost sight of the target. What I have done over my career is to use recoil devices on my shotguns, either an automatic in the beginning or Soft-Touch stocks and later Precision Fit Stocks. If shooters would start out using devices to reduce recoil most would not develop a flinch. Once the flinch occurs on a regular basis the release trigger is the only solution. I have seen new shooters who used handicap loads for their singles shooting and often they developed a flinch after shooting them for a short time. They did not have visual problems, but rather a reaction to heavy recoil.

Whenever I flinch it is because of a poor mount. I don't doubt that others Flinch for other reasons but for me it's all about the mount.

That's what she said! Lol

 

[kmf]

Pitchers are also notorious for being unable to throw the ball to first base after fielding a grounder.

A couple of years ago, Baylor had a star softball catcher who could throw out a base stealer at second but couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher after each pitch without standing up and taking a couple of steps towards the mound.

I’m your huckleberry! You might be a little narrow minded and short sighted or just plain ignorant if you thinks it’s not a vision problem. But here’s the deal; it is vision for some, it’s recoil for others and sound for another group. You can’t speak for everyone. There is not a single answer but I can say with certainty that you can’t shoot what you can’t see and after thousands of shots, you can literally pull your face off the stock because you can’t focus and locate the bead to the bird relationship. Flinching IS vision for some.
Anybody who ever saw Bob Dudley “ducking arrow” shoot would attest to that.
‘Jack Leonard would call for the target with his eyes closed.
Flinching is vision for me and many others. End of story!

 

[JBrooks]

I’m your huckleberry! You might be a little narrow minded and short sighted or just plain ignorant if you thinks it’s not a vision problem. But here’s the deal; it is vision for some, it’s recoil for others and sound for another group. You can’t speak for everyone. There is not a single answer but I can say with certainty that you can’t shoot what you can’t see and after thousands of shots, you can literally pull your face off the stock because you can’t focus and locate the bead to the bird relationship. Flinching IS vision for some.
Anybody who ever saw Bob Dudley “ducking arrow” shoot would attest to that.
‘Jack Leonard would call for the target with his eyes closed.
Flinching is vision for me and many others. End of story!

You can think anything you want to regardless that it is wrong. First, you, like so many others, are conflating the conditioned reflex of recoil and noise with trigger freeze. This is wrong, so stop it.

If you think vision issues cause trigger freeze, which is a dystonia as set forth in Drew's posts above, then you really need to explain how changing the mechanic of firing the gun, fix your vision problem. Do that in a rational manner and my ignorant self will be impressed because no one has yet.

 

[tomk2]

The two sides seem to be, recoil induced or visual problem.
I flinch shooting all disciplines of flying targets and now shoot a release/pull trigger.
I have NEVER flinched hunting and only use pull triggers while hunting.
What happens to the recoil or visual problems when I'm hunting?

Because when hunting you don't set up, mount, then call for a target and expect it to appear on demand, then get the same size and speed target as you were expecting?

 

[tomk2]

A flinch caused a double post? LOL