It’s the cloud of pellets compared to where your front bead is pointing, expressed in percentages. 70/30 means 70% of your pellets are above your front bead.
Putting the target above your front bead puts it in the middle of the pellet cloud, if your gun shooters high.

 

Oh, I thought it was where the cloud was around the target not the bead. So it looks like my gun would be set around 90/10 correct?

 

Don’t get too caught up in the figure 8 thing.

 

Can you expand on that? I’ve been out of this game for a long time, back in the day I was taught to focus past the house but check for the 8 every now and again to keep an eye on fundamentals.

 

It’s all about a consistent gun mount. If you are an Olympic shooter, you have mounted the same gun a million times, and it feels like an extension of your body. Until you get to that point, you might use the advantage that beads provide.

 

I’m only a weekend warrior so the beads to come in handy now and then.

 

Why are those darn beads so spellbinding. Look away! Lol

 

1 When patterning measuer the distance you're from the pattern in yards .
2 Hold the bead at the bottom of the point of aim.
3 Fire three shots.
4 Find the center of the pattern and measure in inches from the point of aim to the center of the pattern.

Instead of guestimating that it shoots 80/20 you can say infadicaly that your gun shoots
10" high at 35 yds.

This works for me but most shooters had rather eyeball thier patterns and tell folks at the club thier gun shoots 99% high .

Do whatever makes sense to you.

Henry

 

70/30 makes good hamburgers
80/20 all around favorite
90/10 is nice so you don’t have to strain the grease when making helper

 

Here, found this in my travels, maybe even on this forum.
Template and my friend's actual results.
He's hitting around 60/40 at 13 yards.

Friend's results from 13 yards.
He still needs to shoot from 25 and 40 yards but you get the idea.
NOTE, he said he had to print the targets on 8-1/2" x 14" paper for them to be to scale...

 

Here, found this in my travels, maybe even on this forum.
Template and my friend's actual results.
He's hitting around 60/40 at 13 yards.

Great tool, printed it of for some young shooter and sent it home for homework -Very helpful - I know some old shooters I should do the same thing with.

 

Thanks, so the target should be setting on top of the bead when patterning. I’m going to print a few of these to try.

 

I’m going to print a few of these to try.

Instead of the dubious printed thingamajiggy with all the little target drawings and a printed ruler that may or may not be to scale, why not simply do the following? (Saves on printer ink, too).

 

If a shotgun shoots flat, it is shooting a 50/50 pattern. Which is 50% of your 30 inch pattern is below your line of sight, while 50% of your pattern is above your line of sight. Your line of sight is what you see at your end bead. No matter how little or much space you have between your beads. If you want your shotgun to shoot as the factory says it should. You'll have to line up your beads like a figure 8. This is how the factory sets their barrels.
Now if the radius of a 30 inch pattern is 15 inches. Then you simply break up the 15 inches and divide by 5, for each percentage you want to raise your pattern. Pattern testing is done at 40 yards. Some folks may want to use 35 yards???

So a 60/40 pattern is going to shoot 3 inches high. A 70/30 pattern is going to shoot 6 inches high. A 80/20 pattern is going to shoot 9 inches high. A 90/10 pattern is going to shoot 12 inches high. While finally a 100% pattern shotgun is going to shoot 15 inches high. All measurements are figured shooting a pattern at 40 yards. I hope this answers your question.

Figures don't lie. To get accurate pattern tests, your going to have to use a benchrest to shoot all your patterns. You can't get good numbers at 35-40 yards by shooting patterns freehand!!!! break em all Jeff

 

So a 60/40 pattern is going to shoot 3 inches high. A 70/30 pattern is going to shoot 6 inches high. A 80/20 pattern is going to shoot 9 inches high. A 90/10 pattern is going to shoot 12 inches high. While finally a 100% pattern shotgun is going to shoot 15 inches high.

This is the problem with the whole percentage BS. First of all, your pattern isn’t 30 inches in diameter. At 40 yards it is probably more like 40-50 inches to even come close to capturing all the pellets.

More importantly, circles don’t behave like that. The real numbers (assuming a 30 inch pattern, which we know is actually wrong) are:

60/40 - center of pattern is 2.25 inches above poa
70/30 - center is 4.75 inches above poa
80/20 - 7.25 inches above poa
90/10 - 10.25 inches above poa

If the full pattern is (more accurately) estimated to be 48 inches, the numbers change even more dramatically.
60/40 - 3.8 inches high
70/30 - 7.7 inches high
80/20 - 11.8 inches high
90/10 - 16.5 inches high

Which, of course, shows the folly of percentages. The difference between poa and poi is solely driven by how large a circle you choose. In the end, it tells you nothing about where the shot actually is.

Unless, of course, you set your poi to be 18 inches high. Then you have a 110% pattern and you now get 1 1/4 ounce performance out of 1 1/8 ounce shells.

 

I wouldn’t even worry about percentages. Go out and shoot a straight bird off of post 3 and adjust your POI up or down until you’re hitting that target hard, black smoke hard. Then you can go to the board to see where it’s at if you want.
At the end of the day you have to set up your gun to shoot where you’re looking and how you move to/through the bird.
Good luck!

 

Dear God I think my head is going to explode. I wasn’t expecting so many answers. I bought the gun used so it was set for the previous owner, the first time I shot it I was struggling because it shot way high for me. I took it to the pattern board strapped to a lead sled and got it lowered to about like the rough sketch I drew. I don’t know what percentage I’ve shot in the past because I never patterned my trap guns before, I never seen the need since nothing was adjustable, I could either hit with it or couldn’t. I thought I might save a little time and get it close on paper to a standard percentage rather than throwing lead aimlessly at birds. Unfortunately I don’t have access to a trap house I can lock on straight aways, so I’ll probably go back to the pattern board, lower it a little more and see how it goes after that.

 

Basically, you have trained your subconscious to shoot your old gun with no rib/POI adjustment, probably fixed at 50/50 (dead on) or 60/40 (3" high at 40 yds) like most field or skeet guns with fixed bead (assuming you line up the beads in figure "8"). Now, with your new "trap" gun, with an adjustable rib, you notice is is shooting high, because you have previously trained your subconscious, over time, to shoot a "flat" POI gun. You can train yourself to shoot any POI you want. One of the most celebrated trap shooters of all time, Harlan Campbell Jr, he sets his gun to shot 30" high, or 200% at 40 yds, I can't even imagine that - how is that possible? Well, that where he feels comfortable and works for him and in his early years trained his subconscious to shoot with that POI that high and now he just shoots where he looks without ever looking at the beads - I would guess if he actually watched his beads relative to the target he would miss several targets. Point is, find a POI that lets you see the bird without covering the target with the muzzle when it's rising. The majority of trap shooters use around 70/30 to 80/20 (9" at 40 yds), so work with that and train your brain to first consciously align bead and clay with the correct sight picture (lead etc.) to smoke that target. Verify with the pattern board where the gun is shooting as has been brilliantly mentioned in most of these posts. Through repetition, with consistent set up, mount and swing, it will start feeling natural. Experts tell us it takes about 1000 targets to train the brain. So, consciously watching the streak angle with peripheral vision out of the trap house then catch the focus on the clay when it becomes visible, check the target speed and trajectory, and swing to the target and now you can look where you want the shot string to go (lead) without ever looking at the beads (your subconscious is still aware of the bead, but you visually don't notice it in your primary vision). The the muzzle will move to where you look (it is quite exhilarating and amazing when that transition happens). All the comments above are excellent technical answers and suggestions, but to me, it is how you train your subconscious as Lanny Bassham points out in his book, With Winning in Mind. Just another slant on the subject of setting POI.

 

. . . the first time I shot it I was struggling because it shot way high for me. I took it to the pattern board strapped to a lead sled and got it lowered . . .

^ ^ ^ ^ Now, you're catching on! Note that you figured out it shot too high for you by simply shooting at real Trap targets. You didn't need to name this too-high POI anything like "90/10" or whatever. You simply knew/felt it was too high . . . period. [Maybe it was, or maybe it wasn't . . . but testing changes is one reason why we shoot practice rounds].

I took it to the pattern board strapped to a lead sled and got it lowered . . .

^ ^ ^ ^ Good job. You did a "before" and "after" test on a pattern board. You shot at a pattern plate and saw what your original too-high POI looked like "on paper". (You still don't need to give this POI a numerical name . . . it is what it is regardless). Then, via your gun's adjustable devices, you lowered your POI as proven by shooting the pattern board again under the same distance/conditions. (You didn't really need to worry about whether the "proper" procedure was to "aim below the dot" or "cover the dot" . . . but simply make sure to use the same method for each shot).

Your 'before' and 'after' results on the pattern board were different, so something was indeed changed. And again, this new POI doesn't need a numerical name . . . the only relevant piece of knowledge is that this new POI is different/lower than it was before. So, the next step is to go see it how this new POI works on real targets.

. . . so I’ll probably go back to the pattern board, lower it a little more and see how it goes after that.

Exactly. If results on real targets are good, just go shoot and never look back. Whatever POI works best for you will continue to work best for you regardless if the numerical name folks desperately want to give it is "correct" or not. If it smokes targets for you, does it matter if you name it 70/30 . . . or 90/10 . . . or 120% . . . or whatever? You know what it looks like on the pattern board now. So, if you ever want to change it further (or if you suspect your gun got out of adjustment somehow), you already have the "benchmark" pattern result to start from.

 

^ ^ ^ ^ Now, you're catching on! Note that you figured out it shot too high for you by simply shooting at real Trap targets. You didn't need to name this too-high POI anything like "90/10" or whatever. You simply knew/felt it was too high . . . period. [Maybe it was, or maybe it wasn't . . . but testing changes is one reason why we shoot practice rounds].


^ ^ ^ ^ Good job. You did a "before" and "after" test on a pattern board. You shot at a pattern plate and saw what your original too-high POI looked like "on paper". (You still don't need to give this POI a numerical name . . . it is what it is regardless). Then, via your gun's adjustable devices, you lowered your POI as proven by shooting the pattern board again under the same distance/conditions. (You didn't really need to worry about whether the "proper" procedure was to "aim below the dot" or "cover the dot" . . . but simply make sure to use the same method for each shot).

Your 'before' and 'after' results on the pattern board were different, so something was indeed changed. And again, this new POI doesn't need a numerical name . . . the only relevant piece of knowledge is that this new POI is different/lower than it was before. So, the next step is to go see it how this new POI works on real targets.


Exactly. If results on real targets are good, just go shoot and never look back. Whatever POI works best for you will continue to work best for you regardless if the numerical name folks desperately want to give it is "correct" or not. If it smokes targets for you, does it matter if you name it 70/30 . . . or 90/10 . . . or 120% . . . or whatever? You know what it looks like on the pattern board now. So, if you ever want to change it further (or if you suspect your gun got out of adjustment somehow), you already have the "benchmark" pattern result to start from.

I like this answer the best.

 

Seems to me that using a lead sled or any kind of rest is defeating the purpose. You need tp know what the gun does in your hands

 

Some guns, perhaps even most guns, shoot to a different POI from a rest than they do from offhand.

 

Look in the stickys and read what Neil Winston wrote about POI testing. Much more useful than percentages and makes it very easy to compare where one gun will shoot as compared to another. If you need more details than Jeff gave you earlier, look HERE

 

No, You still have a 30 inch pattern at 40 yards. Your just seeing the flyer pellets that do not count in your real pattern. This would be the same size pattern that Tim99 uses to do his testing. You are seeing the lost pellets you get on a 75% pattern!!!

No. You have arbitrarily defined the pattern as a 30 inch circle. The pattern is whatever all (100%) of the shot does.
Your definition then means that you are actually only talking about a portion of the pattern. In your terms, an 80/20 pattern means that 60% of the shot (80% of 75%) is above the poa and 15% (20% of 75%) is below and who knows where the other 25% is. That doesn’t seem like a very good way to describe a pattern to me when you could just say the center is 9 inches high…

I deal with real numbers. Each percentage is another 3 inches to me. Like I said figures don't lie. You can't have 3 1/2 inches with a 60% pattern and then add like 2 1/4 inches for a 70% pattern. All the numbers need to be the same. Its simple math. 3, 6, 9, 12, then 15 inches. break em all jeff

If all you want is 3,6,9,12 inches then why the $&@& convert to inaccurate and confusing percentages????

The math isn’t simple, that’s my point. The pattern (even a 30” pattern) is a circle.
You don’t get to choose that 60% is 3” and 70% is 6”. 60% is 2.37 (to be more precise) and 70% is 4.78”. That is the point where the area of the circle above/below the point is equal to the 60/40 or 70/30 ratio. It isn’t neat or linear because circles aren’t linear. Remember pi times the radius squared. It is the squared part that makes it so complex.

The values I listed are real, your’s are not. I did the math, here is the process.

 

I sure am glad I know how to test my shotguns. You guys give me a headache. I’m laughing here, so don’t get mad at me. Not for one minute arguing either.

 

🤦‍♂️ At this point I’m just gonna keep turning knobs and adjusting set screws until I start hitting things. 😆

 

Plus, don’t forget to lead with your right foot if it’s a Monday, Wednesday or Friday, and the switch feet for the other days

 

Just learn how to shot the bird.
Steve

 

If you want to have fun with a percentage prattler, try this.

My gun shoots 80/20.

At what distance?

Oh, you know, about 30 metres.

So you didn't measure it?

Nah.

what was the temperature?

I dunno...

Humidity?

No idea.

Wind speed and direction? Choke? Shot hardness? Shell speed? How many pellets in the shell?

Why does THAT matter?

well, if you want to say 80% are above the POA you need to know how many pellets are in the shell, and then count the holes that are above POA and divide that number by the number in the shell to begin with, then multiply the result by 100.

By now most people will walk away and never refer to % in your presence again.

 

By now most people will walk away and never refer to % in your presence again.

If it works, this may truly be the best advice you've ever given or I've ever received!!!

 

All this makes much more sense with a bottle of Woodford Reserve.

 

This is not my photo…. But it explains everything. For Trap you generally want a pattern of 80/20 or 70/30…. But some people what want even more pellets above than that.
For hunting you generally use 50/50
Good luck.

 

This is not my photo…. But it explains everything. For Trap you generally want a pattern of 80/20 or 70/30…. But some people what want even more pellets above than that.
For hunting you generally use 50/50
Good luck.

could use that 10/90 for some of those diving sporting clays targets. LOL

 

 

I guess you’re right…. I was just trying to show what you get on 80/20 and so on. I missed the Red dot that says aim point…. Why is that even there.? Maybe I should just delete the whole thing. Haha

 

Try this diagram instead (if you insist on "translating" inches high to that dubious percentage nomenclature].

[And yeah, as @Realtor MA alluded to, why would any useful POI diagram show anything lower than 50/50? If any shotgun's POI is lower than 50/50 at normal target-breaking distances, the gun is defective].

 

A 50/50 pattern means you have a 50 percent chance of breaking the bird, 60/40 60 percent, 70/30 is 70 percent, 80/20 gives you 80 percent, 90/10 is 90 percent and if you want to smoke them all 100/0 it's proven science.

 

So with a 120% pattern, I’d score 30/25?