"Ah! ...It's a profit deal!"

 

I recall from an ancient thread here that there are so many life ATA members that the ATA cannot run off of the dues of the rest of the membership, and thus has to make it up with registered fees. This spreads the costs to both life and annual members, rather than jacking the dues up on annual members.

 

ATA fees are just a couple of bucks per day - so if you shoot all three disciplines (singles, handicap, and doubles) you have to divide that fee by three unless you are at a larger shoot where there is only time for 200 singles or 50 pair and 100 handicap. Your state fees are similar.

What you need to consider - If you are trying to sponsor a registered event, you have to buy trophies. Even the cheap stuff is not cheap when you have to provide winner, r/u, AA, A, B, C, D, Lady, Vet, Sr. Vet, Jr, Sub Jr. for each event plus HOA, HAA. If it is resident and non-resident, the price goes up.

So put your complaint into context. What trophies does your club give for $3 per round?

PS - Around here, just the price of targets would not allow a $12 per hundred price. Where do you live and what is the name of your club?? (In case you cannot comprehend, that means I have trouble believing you).

 

Members dues should pay for the toilet paper. HMB

 

Damn Gary Waalkes you would really have a problem with my club Fredericksburg Rod and Gun Club. We pay $2.00 a round for members and $3.50 a round for guests. In case you have a problem believing me I will be glad to send you a copy of our sign out sheet.

Better yet go to the club website click on the documents clay and then select the botton item on the list "skeet shooting journal"

--- Chip King ---

 

There is no question that registered shooting is an income producer for the host club/organization. Don't forget that at the registered shoots there is paid help, added money payouts, etc.. At the state, zone and regional shoots the extra 2-3 dollars extra per hundred pays for the trophies. Anything left over after all those expenses, I suppose, would go to the host club for their use as they see fit. Club overhead is not cheap, after all.

My $.02

Doug Whiton, P/W dealer/dist

 

chipking - are you talking about Virginia?? Does your club have insurance, pay employment benefits and taxes, etc??

 

Gee whiz, I guess I am not shooting trap according to GW. Maybe somebody can tell me what those 50 clay pigeons that came from a small house in the ground about 16 yards in front of me are called. All I know is that I paid a total of $6.00 for those 50 birds or $3.00 each 25.

Oh yes, that is the same price as I pay at the other club I do the majority of my trap shooting at. That might just be because both of these clubs shop around for decent prices when they buy their semi-load of targets. Incidentally they both shoot the same White Flyer targets you will find at a lot of the major shoots. So I am wondering what kind of expenses GW's club must have that they can't cover expenses on targets (non-registered) at $12.00 a hundred. I wonder where that club is so I can avoid visiting them if they have to charge such a high price for their targets (non-registered).

Edited Update: One of the clubs is almost exclusively trap shooters. There are a very few, NO COST pistol shooters in an informal multi-club league but most of them are trap shooters anyway. Virtually all of the shooting activity is TRAP, No Skeet, No Clays, No competitive Rifle and Archery Practice fields but no formal competition. Just a open rifle range and a shorter distance open pistol range. And yes, utilities, taxes, upkeep and everything else is paid for by dues and target fees,

 

Yep sure do and yes it is in VA In fact one of the largest private clubs in VA. Major Skeet club for years and now we have 2 overlayed Trap fields. Which drives the skeeters nuts by the way. Also has Rifle to 200 yards, handgun, IPSC, and action pistol and cowboy action. I don't believe the club has any "employees" but I could be wrong about the cleaning crew being contracted.

--- Chip King ---

 

Gary, you did just fine, until you got to the PS: part. It's North Carroll and we shoot White Flyer targets. I shot Carlisle on Saturday for $3 a round, and we charge $2.50 for club members at Waynesboro. Sorry you have trouble believing me, but apparently, ~$3 seems to be the going rate in these parts. In any case, I was simply wondering why it costs significantly more than twice as much to shoot Registered targets, at the same venues, and the question was answered that most of it goes to the sponsoring club and very little to the ATA, which satisfactorily answered my question. It just seemed like a big difference, that's all.

best...mike

 

chip king - a multi-use facility that can divide expenses is totally different than a dedicated trap club. Charging range fees to rifle and pistol shooters really changes things. No labor is required for that stuff and no targets have to be purchased for that stuff. I could go on and on here but I will just state that if your rifle and pistol shooters ever figure out they are subsidizing shotgun shooting, your rates will change.
PS - rifle and pistol shooting doesn't even need electricity!!

 

C'mon, you always have to look at the bright side....like more room to park.

JR

 

Good backpetal Gary EXCEPT the only people who pay range or use fees at Fredericksburg are the shotgun shooters. UNLESS there is a "registered match" of some sort the ranges are all free to members and their guests.

I certainly hope this has improved your ability to comprehend and believe. By the way where do you shoot and how much do you pay for a practice round. Is it a private club. How many skids of targets does the club buy at a time?

--- Chip King ---

 

chipking

Is your club a member owned club or a private owned club? What do you pay your trap help. ATA and State fees in Florida are $5:00 and targets are over $10.00 a
case and that is by the truck load. Our private owned club has to pay rent on the land that they rent for the trap and skeet fields which is not cheap. Why don't you guys buy a trap club and see how much it cost to run it and how long it takes to get your money back on your investment.

Buck

 

I pay 2.50 or 3 in the Erie pa area non member

 

Buck that still does not change what we pay for practice rounds. NO ATA, VTA fees or Trap help for practice. As for the rest direct from our website.

"The Fredericksburg Rod & Gun Club, Inc. is located just outside of historic Fredericksburg, Virginia on US Route 17 South. FR&GC is a stockholder owned, private club consisting of approximately 176 acres, on which are located three ponds, ten skeet fields, two trap fields, one rifle range, one pistol range, and a spacious clubhouse with a pavilion and a large kitchen.

The Fredericksburg Rod & Gun Club is host to a variety of shooting and social events. Both local and regional NSSA sanctioned Skeet Shoots, VTA sanctioned Trap Shoots, and USPSA sanctioned Matches are hosted by the club. In addition, the club’s facilities are sometimes utilized by such important groups as: National Rifle Association, Ducks Unlimited, Wild Turkey Federation, Boy Scouts of America, Special Olympics, Fraternal order of Police, and Virginia Shooting Sports Association."

Don't gripe at me because you pay more than we do.

--- Chip King ---

 

It's in the simple arithmetic, as I have observed. Take two trapshooters, both longtime friends. Bring up a topic, a rather literal one. (For example, "Don't you think it is a bit humid today?") You will get three opinions.

I think clubs would make more money allowing shooters to bet on how much a round of trap will cost them on the day...reach into a hat at the gate with one's price per round on it. One has to put up a few bucks for the standard fee first so those picking a high cost won't leave. Someone once said, I believe it was the late Art Blatt, in his book: "Show me a trapshooter and I'll show you a gambler."...or something like that.

 

Chip, maybe Garry buys his targets one box at a time at Gander Mountain...grin Waynesboro is a member run trap only facility as is North Carroll, Shippensburg, Greencastle, Mt Airy, Carroll County, Tuscarora, and Thurmont, all within 1hr drive from here. Some have rifle/pistol/archery ranges, all supported by membership dues. Some even have lakes/ponds stocked for member fishing, also "subsidized".

I assure you that Gary's propensity for calling folks liars was not well taken at this household.

 

Chip,

Border Bandits question was why does ATA targets cost more. Most club don't have all events that your club does to help off set the cost of shooting.

Buck

 

Chip, what is the membership fee, (or stock holder fee) for your club. Sounds like a very nice club, I may consider moving there when I retire from working.

There is a $300 initation fee, and then membership fees after that, plus a sponsor is required---sounds sort of exclusive.

How many members?

Ok, I've read the application, membership is a whopping $300, which is non voting, to vote or hold office the member must own 2 shares at $800 per share.

So to become a voting member it costs $2200. Holy Cow!!! I can join 4 clubs here is Nor Cal for less that $200.

I suggest your comparsion to the average trap club is Apples to Oranges.

 

It is simple, charge the most the market will bare.

 

I don't know how it is that your club can do well on $3/round practice prices but I do know my club can not make ends meet at those rates. This probably has to do with the age of the club and volume of business. Anyway we charge $5 per round for practice which isn't that far from registered target costs.

On the registered shoots we do pay trap help wages and on the bigger shoots we will add money to the prize packages. The club is solvent but by no means rolling in cash. When we do manage to put together a decent bankroll and all expenses have been paid, we will look at doing another club improvement project. (there is a long list of those just waiting)

Bottom line - there is some profit in it but it isn't that much and the only ones actually making money are the kids that help us on game days.

 

Buck my original post was not meant to answer Border Bandits question which was already answered by the posters before me including Gary's it was in response to Gary's PS which was a thinly veiled accusation that Mike was lying about the cost of practice rounds.

I am very comfortable that different clubs must charge different rates in order to maintain the goals they have and to meet varying expenses. That is life and so be it but to imply that someone is lying just because you don't like their answer is asinine.

Actually Nutso that is about normal around here. My membership costs me $300 per year. The other club that I belonged to was $90 a year but you had to buy 4 shares of stock per year which was $140 so it cost you $230 a year. The only other clubs within reasonable driving range cost around $325+ per year.

--- Chip King ---

 

Chipking

If your club can make a legit profit at $2.00 per round you must be getting a hell of a deal on white flyers. We buy by the truckload and are only about 4 hours away from the whiter flyer factory. For 6 truckloads it cost us just a few cents shy of $10.00 per case delivered to our club, thats targets, freight and taxes for a 135 target case.

You get 5 rounds with 7% breakage per case, so @ $2.00 per round you just barely pay for the case of targets, that don't leave much for electricity, help, trap maintenance etc. If you are getting targets that much cheaper let me know so I can ask white flyer WHY. So something else in your club is subsidising the trap shooters because I don't think you can buy much cheaper.

Border Bandit,

comparing practice costs to registered target cost is not even apples and oranges. There are so many more expences for a registered shoot compared to just practice targets.

Robert

 

The club I belong to (Atlanta area) charges members $3.00 per 25, trap--skeet--5 stand--SC. and $6.00 non member plus a $6.00 per day guest fee, so 100 targets for non member--4X$6.00 =$24.00 + $6.00 guest fee, total $30.00. Now registered trap @ $26.00 plus $3.00 ATA fees = only $29.00----OK now I pay $210.00 per year dues plus (the 1 time initiation fee) so I have to shoot a min. of 70 rounds a year just to get the same price as my guest, so my 1st 70 rounds cost me as much as a guest. Not so rosy when you look at it that way is it???? Sometimes I ask myself "why", I can shoot reg. cheaper, I do shoot more than 70 rounds per year so that's the reason I stay, but it's still a very expensive sport. Very different from where I used to live (Iowa) but a lot of things cost more here and we do get good shell & component prices through the club. I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. Ross Puls