I have a 725 with DS tubes, cant figure out the reasoning either. I bought a Browning extended LF and it measures and patterns close...use it for singles and caps (21-23yd.)

 

Never was a fan of Browning factory chokes. We have two BT-99s . I put Brileys in them an never looked back.

 

Lever was a Browning factory chokes. We have two BT-99s . I put Brileys in them an never looked back.

I patterned a friends 1978 BT-99 a while back. Factory fixed .044 Full. New BT-99 comes with Mod choke that might measure .015. Figure that one out.

 

that's within their factory specs. Plus or minus .0025, A plus M is the same size as a minus IM. Measured ever
Browning at our club and that's what I found.

 

I have a set of Browning Gold extended chokes. None of them shoots to POA. I can shift the POI as much as 6" just by turning the choke 180 degrees in the barrel.
Carlson chokes have worked out better for me.

 

I haven’t run into any that were way off on POI. See some that are off with any tube

 

I bought a factory Browning tube marked IM and measured .010 restriction off a kid. I use it to show what the difference between this mismarked tube and a true.025-.030 IM choke. Big difference especially at yardage and/or with discount shells. Measured a couple Skeet tubes the other day that were about .003 over BORE. I have never seen any factory specs.

 

I thought that the browning midas chokes were made by Briley...

 

A guy at Briley told me they do make some of the factory chokes but I can’t remember which ones he told me. All the Briley aftermarket chokes in Brownings I’ve measured have been very close so if the are making factory chokes that are not measuring correctly there must be a reason. This is why I’m wondering why they are the way they are.

 

From my personal decisions as well as numerous others, buy aftermarkets and don't look back. You get to support another buisness in the trapshooting industry and it might boost your confidence having good looking chokes at the end of the barrel. Some brands that are good for the price include Briley, and Carlsons from my personal use. Pure Gold, Rhino, Comp 'N Choke, and Teague are also very good brands with a variety of looks, porting, constriction and colors!! Who doesn't like that!!!

 

The only aftermarket manufacturer I have used is Carlsons in my Brownings. Has anyone used another brand that they have found to work or liked better?

 

As long as they measure what you want them to, are bored straight, and fit right you will be fine. That is unless you want to truly optimize what you have for a particular scenario.

 

Has anyone ever gotten a reason why Browning choke tubes are so far off? The .740 bore guns always have bore measurements about +- .001 so they know how to make a hole the right size. I've probably measured a couple hundred of their chokes and most are way off, then you randomly find one that is close. Seems the .035 Full is occasionally the closest.
I called Browning customer service yesterday to ask and the rep was good but the reason the company gave him was that the marking was how the choke performed and the measurement didn't always match. This is not true.
I have a friend who has a friend (like we all do) that said it is a liability issue with steel shot possibly being used. I can't offer any insight other than my observation that the chokes shoot fine for their true measurements not markings. Just doesn't make sense to me and I'm curious.

Is the issue you see with Browning chokes peculiar to any one of the three families they have: Invector, Invector Plus, Invector DS or have you seen this in all Browning choke tubes?
Is there any consistency in the variance you find, such as they all measure +n.nnn or -n.nnn?
When you mention that these are "way off," how off is "way off"?

 

I see mostly the Plus and DS. No difference. Way off is IM consistently measuring .011 to .013 restriction. LF at .021 or Skeet at .003 oversized. I quit paying attention to the marking and just measure it. The Full chokes are ok some of the times but not always. Not sure why they are. Just as a side note I had a 725 with a .035 Full on the same day I had a K 80 with a .035 Full and the only way you could tell the difference is because my software measurements are very precise. Mathematically there was almost no difference in performance.

 

The chokes they sell shoot like they measure with a bore gauge.
The markings are garbage.

Why

My opinion is that thier management thinks mislabeled chokes sells.

Henry

 

Looking on ShotgunWorld dot com, I found an old thread on this that has some interesting info you might like.
Search for: Briley vs. Browning chokes?

 

It is an interesting discussion. I would like to know how those guys were measuring a pattern to tell the difference in a couple thousandths restriction. I just found on Brownings website the expected pattern percentages in 30” circle at 30 yards. 55-85% for a Full at 30 yards is a little bit of a variance. 55% at this yardage is more like a cylinder or skeet tube. With specs like this it’s no wonder they aren’t worried about constrictions.

 

Measured my Citori CXT choke tube the other day.

The Browning Package for my extra full choke tube listed this information
Midas Grade Stainless Steel by Briley
For Back Bored Invector Plus barrels
Manufacture Specifications
X-Full Trap = 0.700 ( 0.040 )
Full = 0.705 ( 0.035 )
Imp. Modified = 0.715 ( 0.025 )
Modified = 0.720 ( 0.020 )
Light Mod. = 0.725 ( 0.015 )
Imp. Cylinder = 0.730 ( 0.010 )
Skeet = 0.735 ( 0.005 )
Cylinder = 0.740 ( 0.000 )

My Invector Plus Choke Tubes
Full ( Top Barrel ) = 0.703 (0.705)
Full ( Extended ) = 0.704 (0.705)
IM ( Extended ) = 0.714 (0.715)
IC ( Extended ) = 0.728 (0.730)

These were all the gold banded extended Midas Grade tubes.

 

Have you actually measured any of these? All of the Briley aftermarket chokes are fine. The issues I’ve seen are DS and Invector Plus including some Gold Band chokes. Going back to my original question, why do they measure this way?

 

Had a friend measure my Browning Invector Plus DS tubes for my CXT and BT99 Plus. Mod 0.018, IM 0.023, full 0.037, xtra full 0.040.

 

Why would these be spot one and so many others so far off? The question, that if answered, may solve all of the worlds problems. Or maybe not.

 

I’ve never had problematic chokes. I didn’t know it existed.

 

In 1979 I bought a BT99 2 barrel set. The Full choke barrel had about .040 constriction and the Modified choke barrel had about .028 constriction. In 1987 -89 I bought an A500R for hunting and a Grade III Citori Trap Gun. Both guns had The Invector Not Invector Plus choke tubes and were way more open than what was marked on them. I had to buy an extra full WinChoke tube to get Full choke patterns for the Trap Gun. I believe this was the time period where Browning rated their chokes by the pattern in a 30" circle instead of constriction like every other gun manufacturer.

 

You might be interested in this thread of mine

https://www.trapshooters.com/threads/head-to-head-comparison-of-browning-invector-ds-chokes-vs-briley-inv-ds.940399/?post_id=9192173#post-9192173

I have a Citori 725 so it uses Invector DS chokes. I got tired of reading about how Browning chokes suck and others like Briley are so much better. It's nonsense. I did my own measuring and detailed patterning using the software Shotgun Insight and AC Jones methods. I did not pattern the lower constriction types like M and IM but measured what I have. For one thing, the bore for my gun at least) is not .740 but .738. An Invector DS Full is .700 and an LF is .705. A Briley Full is .705 and a briley EF is .700 and you can see from my data that Briley F patterns the same as the Browming Inv DS LF because they provide the same constriction.
I posted a table with some of the various companies bores where I could find them and it's pretty clear that for any named choke (M, IM, EF, F, etc) there is no actual standard on what bore that translates to. Now it is true that "most" brands IM's are .715 where Browning InvDS is .723. So that is a pretty big difference. Browning has a thing on there website where they explain that their chokes are designed for pattern size rather than to some arbitrary standard.

Invector-DS - Shotgun Choke Tubes - Browning

The Browning Invector-DS shotgun choke tube system is the biggest leap forward in design since interchangeable choke tubes were introduced. With the Invector-DS, we’ve taken the proven thin wall, muzzle thread choke concept to the next level of shot pattern performance.

www.browning.com

I didn't pattern IM's so I can say how Browning's pattern vs other brands in that size and I only did InvDS. So I can say about the older styles. The AC Jones book would tell you that constriction is the only thing that matters. To make any sense of different chokes, you need to measure YOUR actual bore AND the output bore of the choke in question. AC Jones data says that the length or taper profile doesn't matter. You can't simply measure both ends of the choke. What I found is that Browning InvDS chokes have an input bore (.753) that is much bigger that the gun bore. If you look inside the choke after shooting, you can easily see that the first third of the choke shows little or no sign of shot hitting it. Briley chokes have an input bore that more closely matches the gun (.740choke vs .738gun). That doesn't change the constriction and resulting pattern.

 

Briley chokes have an input bore that more closely matches the gun (.740choke vs .738gun). That doesn't change the constriction and resulting pattern.

I understand you're speaking to your experience with the Inv.DS chokes. But, in regard to Inv.Plus chokes, this makes me wonder if my Briley made Midas chokes for my Citori CX with Browning's back bored barrels would be acceptable/safe to use in my Browning Silver that doesn't have their back bored barrel. Both use Inv.Plus and the only place I've seen any designation was a choke I bought extra where the package said made by Briley for Browning back bored barrels.

Kinda makes me wish I knew what the actual bore diameters are. Wouldn't be of any use helping me break an extra target or two, but would be interesting to know

 

I read with interest the threads regarding Browning choke tubes. It got me wondering since I’ve been shooting a recently purchased 725 and getting weak breaks compared to a Citori I’d been shooting. I attributed it to the one oz shells I’ve been using, but just to be sure I borrowed a bore mic and checked both guns and tubes. Surprising to say the least.
The 725 barrels both are .740. So far so good, but then……..
Full choke is .700 for .040
LF is .712 for .028
IM is .725 for .015
M is .730 for ..010

The Citori CX barrels are both .742
F is .705 for .037
IM is .715 for .027
M is .720 for .022

The CX has Invector Plus tubes, which are right on the money. The 725 has Invector DS which have been reported to be a problem. Guess I’ll be calling Briley next week, and thanks to those who brought the issue to my attention.

 

Interesting. I have no idea who manufacturers the DS chokes but it makes sense the CX Invector Plus chokes made by Briley are dead on.

 

I have 2 725 Citori Sportings, one is a High Rib. for 16 Yd trap I need IM to consistently break birds. Modified seems to be too open. On my A400 Xcel and 391 modified works just fine. Will try Briley.

 

I just measured a set of Browning Midas Extended chokes, they're marked IC .008", LT Mod .012", and Mod .018".

This is a doubles gun so I'll start with IC/MOD.

Pat

 

After reading most of this and after having a buddy at the club "jokingly" giving me a hard time about how nobody uses factory flush mount Invector Plus chokes, I got some Carlson extended chokes. I haven't had a chance to pattern them yet, but they changed my gun for the better. I love the Carlson chokes.