[Jerry944t]

Definitely forged frames are over-rated. A majority of the really exclusive Bullseye smiths use Caspain frames as a base. They are not forged. When you are paying 4 to 6 thousand dollars for a custom Bullseye gun you can be sure they are using the best available, durable and in spec frames.

Forged slides are universal.

RIA and most STIs are made by the same Filipino company by the name of Armscor.

 

[g7777777]

I have a complete and unfired Rock Island upper 45 with barrel - etc

I would sell that if you wanted it to go with your frame

Regards from Iowa

Gene

 

[wolfram]

If you are thinking about converting a 1911 that is .45 acp you will need to get a 9mm barrel with an unsupported chamber and a 9mm/.38 super slide and replace the ejector. Also you will need 9mm/.38 super magazines.

I did a similar coversion with a series 80 gold cup in .45 acp going to a .38 Super compensated top end. If you leave the ejector unpinned, you can reverse the conversion just by swapping top ends an switching ejectors. (and mags of course)

At first I was worried about the unsupported chamber with the .38 super round but I have never had a case rupture and generally I ran some fairly hot ammo through the .38 super top end.

If you are starting with a new gun or frame up build, then go with a supported chamber to start with. The Caspian frames are excellent quality and a great place to start.

 

[zzt]

GNeJ, if you have an unused frame around and are just dying to have a 9mm 1911, go for it. On the other hand, I have to say, why bother.

If you put a 45 ACP slide on it, you will have a much more flexible gun.

I have one load using a Penn Bullets 152gr dual ogive LSWC that makes 142PF. That's in the same league as the 147gr 9mm rounds (144PF) I used to shoot in my Sig P226. And, it is way more accurate than the 9mm was. It is accurate enough for Bullseye use.

I have another superb load using a 200gr LSWC load that makes 134PF and is softer shooting and more accurate than any 9mm round I've ever shot.

A Nosler 185gr JHP at 775fps gives you one-hole groups at 25 yards with a 143PF. That's squarely in 9mm territory.

Using 200gr LSWC at velocities giving PFs from 155 to 160 really, really kicks up the accuracy and consistency. SDs in the single digits are easy.

My major, 175PF load uses a 200gr TCPB lead bullet and gives SDs under 7.

Then you can go to 180PF for hardball matches or use full bore factory loads.

So for me, It made much more sense to sell the 9mm and stick with the 45. It is much, much more flexible.

BTW, I also tried the one frame, two slide approach. I'd caution against it. One of the slides cannot be fit as closely as the main slide, and that slide will show rapid wear (comparatively speaking). The only time I could recommend two top ends is if one of them is a 22LR conversion unit.

BTW2, these comments are for single stack 1911s only. With 2011 frames, it is a whole 'nother story.

 

[plabels466]

GNeJ, I tried that once (read wolfram again) it is not worth it...I then bought a Caspian frame & built a custom 9mm...Incredible pistol....You should look at the Springfield 9mm.........Good luck for whatever you do.....Pete

 

[trapshootin hippie]

GN7777777, pm sent.

 

[thunder]

Jerry944t I don't think your information is correct on STI International 1911. The STI Spartan model frame are made at the Filipino company by the name of Armscor. To my knowledge that is the only platform that is made their for STI lineup.

 

[WGB]

Jerry944t

You are giving incorrect information. Only the low end STI's are cast. They used forged frames on all the higher end guns. Custom makers usually rely on a good forged frame to make the best pistols.

If you don't know something don't give out bad information.

 

[Jerry944t]

Well WGB I'd say I know a bunch more than you. I also know a good number of first line smiths and I know what they use for frames. As for STI frames I know their lower end models are cast by Armscor. Never paid attention to their high end ones so you may be right.

So if you don't know something don't give out bad info.

BTW I've built 3 1911s from the ground up. You know fitting a slide to a frame, fitting a barrel to the slide, fitting all fire control and safety parts, checkering the back and frontstrap, etc.

I've used 2 Caspian frames and one Wilson. I can see no difference. I also own two full custom 1911s built by our own Ross Carter. What to ask him the frames he prefers?

Forged frames are over-rated. Period. Attention to detail and in spec frames are not overrated.

If forged frames were important why are they making new 2011 double stack frames out of Polymer? I'll tell you why. A frame, cast or forged, doesn't take the pounding that a slide or barrel does.

 

[Bill T]

I have the "Loaded" Springfield in 9 MM. It's in Stainless and has adjustable sights. The gun is beautifully made, and functions well with most any type of ammo. I mostly shoot Federal 115 Gr. FMJ in it because it's so much cheaper than .45 ACP.

 

[thunder]

Jerry944t just to clarify that you are correct that STI uses Amrscor frame on their lower end. What you are not saying is that STI has only one line of handguns with the Armscor frame its called the Spartan. The Spartans sell for a little over 600.00 and surely are one of the best guns out their for that price. The frame is worked over by STI and trigger is nice right out of the box, no extra dollars spent to cleanup and make it run, they are very accurate. Build in Texas and done right.

Their other 1911 platforms sell for 975.00 and up, I would not call them high end prices for a forged frame gun.

 

[Jerry944t]

Thunder, just to set the record straight, I think Spartans are just fine. Armscor is very capable of making a good 1911.

My point was that a forged frame is not particularly significant. I have no trouble with forged or cast. I don't think that just because a frame is forged makes it superior to a good cast one such as Caspian and either do most top-notch smiths.

In other words whether the frame is forged or cast shouldn't be the determining factor when buying a 1911. I say this from a position of much research and reading countless threads on the subject on various 1911 forums.

Here is a quote from Joe Chambers, one of the finest Smiths in the country. You can Google him if you care.

"But the frames being cast and then heat treated is not a bad thing in my opinion. I've seen a good many forged frames from major makers that were cracked over the years. I've never seen a Caspian cast frame crack...and I've seen some with VERY high round counts."

 

[thunder]

Jerry944t I will not argue with you on your cast vs forged point as its probably very correct. Some just feel that nothing is good unless its thousands of dollars which isn't most of the time correct, as always said its the not the arrow. I have a friend that has a RIA 1911 in 9mm and its been a very good and accurate gun, he did have to do a trigger job on it but other than that it runs very well.

 

[trapshootin hippie]

So, from the information that I am getting, it would not be feasable to get a Rock Island 9mm top end and expect it to function properly on a Caspian frame.

GneJ

 

[zzt]

thunder, many of what you are calling high end STI pistols are in fact built on cast frames. For instance, their Trojan, probably their most popular pistol is built on a cast frame. It is not until you get up to the Sentry level that you get forged frames.

I had a long discussion with STI when I was considering buying one of their pistols. Both of the gentlemen I spoke to thought the forged frame was very superior to the cast and urged me to for for the Sentry or better.

Jerry944t convinced me to build my own, so I ordered all the parts and am in the process. I went with STI forged frame and slide. I'll tell you that the machining on the frame was not so great and it took many hours to stone out the chatter marks and some of the outright gouges, especially in the trigger track. I'd not buy one again. I don't know what their cast frames look like, but I've never seen a Caspian frame machined that rough.

 

[thunder]

zzt my RangerII is a forged frame and that with nitesights was a little over 1100.00. I wasn't sure where the Trojan was at.

 

[zzt]

GneJ, as Jerry says, if it has a 45 feed ramp, it's not going to work.

Give Caspian a call. Give them the serial number and they will tell you what you have. It could have 45, 40/10 or 38/9mm feed ramps and it may have W/N or Clark cuts. Once you know for certain what you have you can decide what to do. BTW, I've found Caspian to be very helpful.

 

[Setterman]

I hear all this "forged" vs "cast" comparison crap, but no one has said why a forged frame would be better?

Do you expect the cast to wear faster?

 

[BigM-Perazzi]

forged are more expensively made....

 

[wolfram]

TSHippie, you can make the Caspian frame work. If the frame you have is part of a .45 acp pistol you will have to use an unsupported chamber 9mm barrel or mill a small rectangular area out of the frame such that a supported chamber barrel will fit. Also don't forget you will need to replace the ejector.

If you are going to have a professional do this work then you will be better off just buying a complete 1911 already set up for the 9mm and doing what ever other custom mods you may want from that point.