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What is the deal with some states combining their State Shoot and Zone shoots. I know the clubs probably love the idea because it cuts their labor ,target cost, and operating over head cost in HALF but, I certainly don't like the idea, and have talked to several who aren't too keen on it either. I am not talking about shoots running back to back, The words "in Conjunction" means at the same time. :hmmmm2:
 

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What is the deal with some states combining their State Shoot and Zone shoots. I know the clubs probably love the idea because it cuts their labor ,target cost, and operating over head cost in HALF but, I certainly don't like the idea, and have talked to several who aren't too keen on it either. I am not talking about shoots running back to back, The words "in Conjunction" means at the same time. :hmmmm2:
What don't you like about the idea, Mike?
 

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What is the deal with some states combining their State Shoot and Zone shoots. I know the clubs probably love the idea because it cuts their labor ,target cost, and operating over head cost in HALF but, I certainly don't like the idea, and have talked to several who aren't too keen on it either. I am not talking about shoots running back to back, The words "in Conjunction" means at the same time. :hmmmm2:
Missouri just did this because of the virus. I don't care for the idea and I think it will be a huge cluster, but time will tell. Also moving the State shoot to July is going to be one HOT mofo! I doubt I will shoot it all, because I don't like to shoot in extreme heat. I don't understand why they moved the State shoot already, it was almost 2 months away from now. Many things may change between now and then.
 

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With the state shoots set up to not step on each other the current situation is causing some cancellations. To be able to have a state shoot some states are combining the state shoot with the zone shoot that is held later in the year. With the disruption of the shooting schedule this is a way to get the state shoot in this target year and not step on another state shoot date. Not ideal but this year we will be lucky to get what we can.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
What don't you like about the idea, Mike?
It cuts the number of large shoots available to attend . For instance it is not just State shoots. Our big Spring championship Shoot in FL will be combined with the Southern Zone shoot. There is another Southern Zone shoot just over the state line in AL. that is a LOT closer and I will go there but, that means I will MISS the Spring Shoot because they decided to "combine" it with the Zone. I have talked to SEVERAL people about this " in Conjunction " thing ,and nobody I have talked to likes the idea. I KNOW they CAN do it but it doesn't ,make it any more likable. I also don't buy the idea it is a necessity. There are plenty of calendar dates available to hold all the shoots. even if a Small shoot must be put aside. Also I have a bad feeling that once clubs get in the HABIT of this " Conjunction" thing, they will continue to do it in order to "Save themselves Money" .
 

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It cuts the number of large shoots available to attend . For instance it is not just State shoots. Our big Spring championship Shoot in FL will be combined with the Southern Zone shoot. There is another Southern Zone shoot just over the state line in AL. that is a LOT closer and I will go there but, that means I will MISS the Spring Shoot because they decided to "combine" it with the Zone. I have talked to SEVERAL people about this " in Conjunction " thing ,and nobody I have talked to likes the idea. I KNOW they CAN do it but it doesn't ,make it any more likable. I also don't buy the idea it is a necessity. There are plenty of calendar dates available to hold all the shoots. even if a Small shoot must be put aside. Also I have a bad feeling that once clubs get in the HABIT of this " Conjunction" thing, they will continue to do it in order to "Save themselves Money" .
Doesn't it save shooters some money too?
 

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Doesn't it save shooters some money too?
Well maybe but, it CUTS down on my chances to WIN also ! The SAME people who WIN an event will also WIN that event in the Combined shoot ( they might not on another day) ! If I really just wanted to SAVE MONEY ,I would just stay home. I would rather have the chance to shoot more.
 

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The SAME people who WIN an event will also WIN that event in the Combined shoot ( they might not on another day) !
Not necessarily.

There's no guarantee that the site high score will be the Zone high score. None at all.

And there's no guarantee that the State Shoot site high score, when tied with other Zone high scores, if any, will prevail in the shoot off.

It will give shooters a chance to win two ATA trophies.

That doesn't exist in any other shoot format that we have.
 

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This is sorry sort of support for having any shooting. Times are hard right now. It doesn't seem like it is the time to stir the pot. Let's wait and see what goes on before we start whipping a dead horse .
We all know it will get better. In time.
Just my two cents.
I've been in this game for 50 years and I can [email protected] sure bet I have supported the Sport for a HELL OF LOT LONGER and a HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN YOU EVER HAVE ! I don't liked the idea of this" in conjunction" BS and I never will! And I am pretty sure most of the people I shoot with feel the same! Yes times ARE hard and I am a Hell of a lot more concerned about people out of work than I am about trapshooting ! People are hurting right now and Trapshooting is just a game . We will be lucky if we get to shoot at all for awhile But,don't even TRY and tell me they HAVE TO do this combined shoot BS !
 

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Not necessarily.

There's no guarantee that the site high score will be the Zone high score. None at all.

And there's no guarantee that the State Shoot site high score, when tied with other Zone high scores, if any, will prevail in the shoot off.

It will give shooters a chance to win two ATA trophies.

That doesn't exist in any other shoot format that we have.
They are saying they are CONCURRING events . To me that means the SAME people in BOTH events with a VERY high score will take the trophy . I don't see it would go any other way. You CAN say someone can only take one trophy but I'm pretty sure someone would raise Hell with the ATA if they were told they could take both trophies in a concurring event if they turned in a really high score . You can bet that a 200 or at LEAST a 199 will take Champion of BOTH and one in the very high 9os will take caps.
 

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They are saying they are CONCURRING events . To me that means the SAME people in BOTH events with a VERY high score will take the trophy . I don't see it would go any other way. You CAN say someone can only take one trophy but I'm pretty sure someone would raise Hell with the ATA if they were told they could take both trophies in a concurring event if they turned in a really high score . You can bet that a 200 or at LEAST a 199 will take Champion of BOTH and one in the very high 9os will take caps.
The site events are shot "concurrently" with the Zone event.

The Zone event consists of the scores from all the sites.

There are two "events" and two shoot populations.

There's a site population and then the aggregate of all the sites constitutes the Zone population.

Let's say that there is one 200 straight in the Singles Championship from each of the four Southern Zone sites.

Those four shooters will shoot off for the Zone Singles Championship.

But since there was only one shooter from each site with a 200, each of the shooters has already won their site singles championship trophy.

But in order to win the Zone trophy, they need to shoot off.

Let's say that the high senior vet score in the singles championship at the Silver Dollar has a 199.

But one of the 200s at one of the other sites is a senior vet, and that shooter loses the shoot off for Zone Singles Champion.

That shooter would be their sites Singles Champion with a 200 and the Zone Singles Senior Vet Champion (200 lost champion shoot off).

The shooter at the Silver Dollar with the 199 would be the Silver Dollar's Senior Vet Champion.
 

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Here's another example.

Let's say that there is only one 200 straight in the singles championship event.

And that 200 is shot at the site that is concurrently holding its state shoot.

That shooter will be both their state singles champion and their zone singles champion.

For the purposes of determining trophy winners there are two populations as I mentioned above.

Basically, shooters can win a site trophy and a zone trophy in the same event. Happens all the time.

Additionally, when a site is also holding a state/provincial shoot, a shooter can win an ATA trophy at their site, and a zone ATA trophy in the same event.
 

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For some perspective, we're in some uncertain times is an understatement. Many state associations are scrambling to come up with a reasonable response.
We had already ordered our trophies from Wendell August for our first shoot in June and were in the process of setting up our order for our state shoot in July when the PA governor shut down all non essential travel and basically issued a shelter in place order, currently we are keeping in contact and I'm fully expecting they can fulfill our order when we need it, but we are planning for contingencies in case we have to use other sources. Currently we get targets from White Flyer in OH, if Ohio goes on the same kind of lock down we may and I stress the "may" part, we may not be able to get targets from them for the shoot to have a state shoot even if the all clear is given in the next 6 or 8 weeks. With the number of state shoots in our zone, if state shoots are prohibited by the government until late May or early June, we'll all be shooting on top of each other with the mandate to finish in time to have zone shoots the week or two before the Grand. Most of us do not want to have a state shoot and a zone shoot at the same time for a number of reasons, but the government lock downs may not give us much of a choice this year. Be patient we're doing the best we can using the lead times we have.
 

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with them combining shoots I would hope that the ATA would have to lower the required targets for grand week.
It's probably on the table already, state shoots as well.
 

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I will be glad to attend any shoot that doesn't get cancelled this summer.
I think it will get worse before it gets better.

I have shot a State Shoot combined with a zone shoot.
I didn't mind it but it wasn't very popular with most shooters.

Its All Good

West
 

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I've been in this game for 50 years and I can [email protected] sure bet I have supported the Sport for a HELL OF LOT LONGER and a HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN YOU EVER HAVE ! I don't liked the idea of this" in conjunction" BS and I never will! And I am pretty sure most of the people I shoot with feel the same! Yes times ARE hard and I am a Hell of a lot more concerned about people out of work than I am about trapshooting ! People are hurting right now and Trapshooting is just a game . We will be lucky if we get to shoot at all for awhile But,don't even TRY and tell me they HAVE TO do this combined shoot BS !
Ya I just turned 66 started shooting in 1972 you have a couple of years on me.
Enjoy your evening
 

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I've been in this game for 50 years and I can [email protected] sure bet I have supported the Sport for a HELL OF LOT LONGER and a HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN YOU EVER HAVE ! I don't liked the idea of this" in conjunction" BS and I never will! And I am pretty sure most of the people I shoot with feel the same! Yes times ARE hard and I am a Hell of a lot more concerned about people out of work than I am about trapshooting ! People are hurting right now and Trapshooting is just a game . We will be lucky if we get to shoot at all for awhile But,don't even TRY and tell me they HAVE TO do this combined shoot BS !
Slide Action... well since you’ve been in the sport for so long, have you ever encountered a countries state of affairs as this?
If you care of people out of work.... do you actually think gun clubs are made of money and this won’t affect their well being? You are entitled to your opinion but unfortunately your opinion is like toilet paper.... OUT OF STOCK. Clubs decisions are to make attempts to give shooters something to do NOT cheat you out of a trophy.

I hope your state recovers from our unfortunate setback and challenges ahead.
God bless- Doughboy
 
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