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I recently got a new case of WW209 primers and I have had nothing but trouble with them feeding in my Apex. The primers would bridge in the primer tray, sometimes they would tip over and block the cog that rolls them into the primer drop tube and in general they caused many problems. After having the came problem occur in all of the first three boxes (100/tray) I knew Winchester must have changed something.. Out came the dial micrometer and the problem's cause became very easily identifiable.

The rim on older primers measured .030" and had a slightly rounded edge while the newer lot were only .025" thick and had a much sharper and rougher edge. These new primers can work their way under adjacent primers and make it much more likely to create a bridge where the primers will not slide easily down the tray and can slightly tip the adjacent primer where they will push up into the primer tray lid. Sometimes this tipping will even cause a primer to fall on its side inside the tray.

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This problem slows the reloading process because of having to clear bridges and get the tipped primers back upright or else jams occur.

Given these problems, I will probably try to use up the existing lot of 4500 primers and hope that the problems clears when I get into other boxes but, unfortunately, I suspect that this problem will continue through the entire case. If it does, Winchester primers will NOT be my next purchase.

I have noticed, but been able to accommodate another problem Winchester seems to have created in that the lengths of the shells in the HS cases have a greater variation than other brands and this variation causes some of the shorter shells to have a small hole in the middle of the crimp but the longer shells will completely seal the crimp.

Given these two conditions, it appears that Winchester has loosened it quality control standards. They, with the old AA CF case, were the gold standard in shotshell reloading but now I am thinking that they seem to have abandoned that idea and let quality standards slide.
 

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This is a bad deal- Some material buyer that dosn't know anything about manufacturing at Winchester made a cheaper buy to look good to his superviser and it causes all kinds of problems all the way to the consumer. This causes problems in maufacturing also, the draw die that forms the primer is set up for a exact material thickness and as a result the diameters inside or outside and total length will be different when the die bottoms out and forms the primer.

Another thing that could have happened is the press operator running the forming die used too much tonnage and mashed the head of the primer thickness. Regardless the manufactuer had to know there was a primer problem because the had to have other difficultes in their processes.

Check yr primer diameter and see if their is a difference between the old and new but the burr on the edge tells me that there is too much clearance on the shear die for the primer OD and the material in thinner.
 

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I can't speak to the primer issue, except to say that I have been using WLP primers for 45ACP for years and have never had so many problems as with this last case.

Regarding the variation in hull length. This is actually normal. I've seen it with STS hulls over the years. I finally asked on of their VPs why that was. I was told the OEM lots of powder they get vary considerably from those that are sold to reloaders. They extensively test each new lot to determine how much of that lot must be used to meet advertised velocities. They then adjust the extruders to produce a hull length "appropriate" to the volume of the powder used. They want factory crimps to be perfect.

I've never really cared about the variations in length. As long as the crimp is deep enough and tight, a little hole in the center, or a crinkle didn't bother me.
 

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I can't speak to the primer issue, except to say that I have been using WLP primers for 45ACP for years and have never had so many problems as with this last case.

Regarding the variation in hull length. This is actually normal. I've seen it with STS hulls over the years. I finally asked on of their VPs why that was. I was told the OEM lots of powder they get vary considerably from those that are sold to reloaders. They extensively test each new lot to determine how much of that lot must be used to meet advertised velocities. They then adjust the extruders to produce a hull length "appropriate" to the volume of the powder used. They want factory crimps to be perfect.

I've never really cared about the variations in length. As long as the crimp is deep enough and tight, a little hole in the center, or a crinkle didn't bother me.
zzt,
Actually the trimming is done on the loader, not at extrusion. The extruded hulls run into a large basket and cannot be segregated into lengths.

Scott Hanes
 

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I've also noticed a rough edge on the last couple of boxes of W209s, but noting as close to the edges of the CCIs. I can run the Winchesters in my Grabber, but CCIs seem to cause problems feeding, even with a good coat of wax on the tray.
 
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