Rich, consider Halfmile's Ackley improved with seriosity. It's technically a wildcat but you can fireform brass by simply shooting standard .257 Roberts cartridges and the Mauser action is prized. Dies are readily available for the Ackley Improved cartridges, recoil is pleasant, and you'd have a dandy nice rifle good for varmint, coyote, pig, deer and?.....Bob Dodd
Mr. Kentucky, I believe you mean you want a .257 Remington Roberts, not a .257 Roberts. They are not the same cartridge. I had as my first Roberts an original .257 Roberts which was simply the 7X57 Mauser necked down to .257 with no other changes. When Remington decided to legitimize the .257 Roberts, they changed the shoulder and slope . A .257 Remington Roberts should not chamber in a .257 Roberts, if it does, you've got trouble in River City. Having said that, the chances of someone selling you an original .257 Roberts are slim to none. I have owned various .257 Remington Roberts for the last 45 or so years, beginning with a Remington 722, a Remington 760, a FN Mauser, etc. My present one is the Ruger Round-Top in .257 Remington Roberts on which I have mounted a Bausch & Lomb Balvar 8A in B&L mounts. As this rifle has a very stiff barrel, it is a heavy rig but boy, will it shoot. I was handloading 100 grain Nosler partitions to 3100 plus FPS when the factory stuff was still plodding along at 2900 or so. If someone offers you one of these Round-tops, snap it up. You can use any bases on it that are made for the 721 Remington because you are not stuck with the Ruger rings.
Kentucky, Ruger is chambering their Model 77 Hawkeye in the .257 Roberts. I believe they are the only major factory currently chambering that caliber. Don't let Wahoo get you confused like he is. There is only one .257 Roberts and it is the same cartridge that Remington has chambered in their rifles in past years. I have one of the Remington Model 700 Clasics in this caliber and on the barrel it says .257 Roberts (no Remington name added) You would think if Remington was going to try to add their name to an old factory cartridge they would not have passed on this chance. There was no attempt to "legitimize" this cartridge by Remington as it was never not "legitimate". Winchester chambered their Model 70s in this caliber long before Remington ever offered it in the 722. The Ruger M77 Hawkeye in this caliber also says .257 Roberts on the barrel.
The only variant I can think of on the .257 Roberts was the P.O. Ackley version with his 40 degree shoulder and blown out case which is/was always a wildcat. I have a custom rifle in this Ackley version also.
Go to Rugers website and look at their Hawkeye. They are attractive rifles and of good quality.
I'm told Jacquas is getting a huge collection of Remington 700s in all calibers that were held by a guy in Memphis for years. Talking about 800 rifles. A gun dealer told me this. You might check that out.
Ruger has them in the m77. Great cartridge. Shot my first deer with this cartridge at about 100 yards or so. Ran 10 yards and piled up. Great gun. I own one n the m77 and the ruger no. 1. Wouldnt part with either of them.
A few years ago I built a Remington .257 Roberts Improved. It will spit a 75gr bullet 4000fps & is extremely accurate. Absolutely too much fur damage on coyotes, excellant for antelope & I shot a big whitetail with it.
Apparently Southbend is totally clueless as to the origin of the .257 Roberts cartridge. It was developed by a schoolteacher in upper New York State named N.H. (Ned) Roberts with assistance from other notable cartridge experimenters of his day, notably Col. Townsend Whelen and A.O. Neidner, along with suggestions by Harvey Donaldson of "Yours Truly, Harvey Donaldson" fame in "The
Handloader" magazine and who developed the .219 Donaldson Wasp of early benchrest fame. Ned Roberts, who, by the way, always called the cartridge he developed the ".25 Roberts", was already a shooting authority of note, being a collector of and an expert on caplock rifles and having written books about that subject. Roberts, a major in the "War To End All Wars" also wrote "Big Game Hunting" published after WW II.
Regarding commercial rifles that were chambered for this cartridge, Remington was chambering rifles for the .257 Remington Roberts before the Winchester M70 was even announced in the "American Rifleman" in late 1936. Winchester's pre-M70 Winchester turnbolt sporting rifle, the M54, started chambering for the now legitimized former wildcat .257 Remington Roberts in 1936. Remington had been chambering their M30 rifle, a much modified action based on the wartime M1917 Enfield action, for several cartridges but in 1934 the original M30 started to be chambered for several new cartridges including the .257 Remington Roberts.
Cartridges developed by individuals are considered wildcat cartridges until, and if, they are adopted for commercial chambering, at which time they are considered legitimized. There are several current legitimized cartridges now available, notably the .22-250 Remington (Remington's version of the wildcat .22-250 or "Gebby Varminter" as it was known when it was patented by gunsmith Jerry Gebby; the Remington .25-06 (Remington's version of the Neidner Arms wildcat .25 Neidner, and the Winchester .243 Winchester (Winchester's legitimization of the .243 Page Pooper, developed by noted gunwriter Warren Page). Major Roberts developed the .25 Roberts in the late 'Twenties and it was a wildcat until modified and legitimized by Remington in 1934 as the .257 Remington Roberts.
One of my absolutely favorite deer guns is a .257 Ackley Improved made by Jim Borden on a Stolle Kodiack action with a Hart barrel, MacMillan stock, Jewell trigger and Nightforce scope. Jim made the dies with a false chember to set bullet depth. I use fire formed Remington cases and Nosler 115 gr. Ballistic tips. Chrono about 3350 fps. Tough on Bambi.
Wahoo you stated, “Mr. Kentucky, I believe you mean you want a .257 Remington Roberts, not a .257 Roberts. They are not the same cartridge.”
Yes, the .25 Roberts was a different size cartridge from the .257 Roberts noting the difference between the designation of .25 and .257 in reference between the two.
But today’s .257 Roberts is the 7X57 necked down to 25 caliber. This is evident by the headspace gauge for the .257 Roberts being interchangeable with the 7X57 indicating they have the same datum length and shoulder angle.
You are going to get Kentucky confused and worried that there are today two different factory chamberings being offered, one the .257 Roberts and the other the .257 Remington-Roberts. If you want to attach the Remington brand to this cartridge feel free to do so but I don't think you are going to find any factory rifles with the Remington-Roberts chambering designation. If you do, let me know who of the majors is doing this.
halfmile, didn't P.O. Ackley state that the .250 Savage (a.k.a. .250/3000) when given his 40 degree shoulder and reduced body taper Ackley treatment, give the best increase in velocity and efficiency? I'll have to go back and re-read his books but for some reason that sticks in my mind. I have a .250 Ackley I built using a Ruger 77 short action and a stainless Shilen barrel in a 24 inch sporter taper. It sure is a nice whitetail rifle.
I do not have the books unfortunately, I got them on Intrloan from the St. Cloud Library of the Unversity of Minnesota. I renewed them till I had to send them back. I really should have them on hand for reference but that's just one of those things that didn't happen.
.250 Ackley is kind of a ghost compared to the 257, it's possible his statement was made vefore the roberts version was developed. At any rate, the 257 Ackley will run right with the 25-06, and benefits from a medium length action (not a short one) compared to the long '06 parent.
So what am I doing? contemplating a 6mm-06, or 6.5, due to the fact that I have a long action sitting around doing nothing.
Southbend, you need to read my initial post and then my last. I said at that time that the cartridge was based on the 7X57 Muaser necked down to .257 caliber. Despite the designation .25 Roberts, it was, and is, exactly the same bore diameter of the present day .257 Remington Roberts, being the same situation as the .25 Remington which also was a .257 caliber.
You will also note in re-reading my posts that nowhere did I say that the .25 Roberts or the original .257 Roberts was ever chambered in a production rifle, by Remington or anyone else. The .257 Remington Roberts, the version altered by Remington, was the first .257 caliber cartridge based on the 7X57 Mauser case that was put into production, the original .257 Roberts was chambered only by custom rifle builders or barrel makers.
The following is a quote from Phillip B. Sharpe: "...Remingtons who were experimenting with the .25 Roberts cartridge in an effort to produce it commercially. The long, slender taper of the shoulder, however, did not appeal to them because of its manufacturing complications. Accordingly, they changed the angle entirely so that the .257 cartridge cannot be shot in rifles chambered for the .25 Roberts." Also, if you study old ammunition catalogs from the late 30's and early '40's, you will find the cartridge listed with all three names, .25 Roberts, .257 Roberts and .257 Remington Roberts at the same time.
I guess all of us gun nuts just like to come up with a new (to us) cartridge to load and shoot. Sometimes if we are just looking at velocity increases we overlook the obvious. Like me when I chambered the .250 Ackley to match the velocity of the standard .257 Roberts. Then when I made myself a .257 Ackley Roberts to match the velocity of the standard .25-06. Now should I chamber up a rifle in the .25-06 Ackley to attempt to match the velocity of my .257 Weatherby? I am wondering why I have a 250/3000, a .250 Ackley, a .257 Roberts, a .257 Ackley Roberts, a .25-06 and a .257 Weatherby. The best answer I can come up with is I just enjoy different rifles. We don't have to be practical about guns do we?
halfmile I have a 6.5-06 and I guess to sum it up, I am not impressed with it. When you stop to think about it, the difference between .257 and .263 (.006") bore is not that much. Just gives you a choice of some pretty long bullets and slightly heavier ones over the .25-06. I guess you could say it is about as exciting as dancing with your sister.
You might consider building up a 7mm Express (a.k.a. .280 Rem.) on that long action you have laying around. I assume it is a 06 bolt face. For a little more horse-power if you don't have a 7mm Mag., think about the .280 AI. I personally like the .280/7mm Exp and have always thought that when it is loaded to the same pressures as the .270 it is a great round.
Perhaps a better one for your WI woods could be a 8mm-06 or a .338-06. I don't have either (do have a .338 Mag though) but I believe the 8mm-06 might be a good project.