Check out the minutes of the EC in this months T&F dated 12-7-06. There is specific mention from Mr Greb that "it brought him no pleasure to introduce the next order of business", that being the financial compliations of the ATA's shoots that were conducted at WSRC in 2006. Form an opinion on your own....
Nobody is making money from Sparta!!!! Before Ill can make money,,,they must first recover their original investment,,and that will take years upon years to do!!!!
The ATA has lost money on every shoot they have hosted at Sparta!!!!! They lost money big time for the Grand,,,,tens upon tens of thousands of dollars lost due to allowing reloads and according to the ATA,,it was for the shooters,,because the money they wanted for NEW shells was OUTRAGEOUS,,and figured they ALREADY lost enough shooters!!!!
The area expected about a 10 million per year economic impact,,,But they forgot,,,You must first have somewhere to spend money!!!! And at the same time they are trying to jack off the dog to feed the cat!!!! First they approve the money to be spent,,,,and then the politicions take up their time by trying to destroy what they have built thru anti gun bills!!! Good Luck,,,,Your're going to need it!!!!!!!!!
Grams you kill me.lol Your reply's are becoming cartoonish. It cracks me up that every time a thread about Sparta pops up. Your there too! I have a hard time believing that someone can be so negative about everything. If I think real hard, I believe you and WPT both guaranteed that it wouldn't be built, but there it is.
I do agree with you that the politicians in that state are chopping off their nose despite their face. Most Politicians do. It is just a shame that that whole state is run by the Chicago mafia.
I am still trying to figure out how the ATA managed to lose money.
The main reason the ATA did not make any profit from the 2006 Grand was total mismanagement. They over estimated the number of shooter that might attend and they over hired and/or were responsible for the over hiring of personnel. And for some unknown reason they gave the shell concession away. As a long term attendee of the Grand (and all those I know that fit that bill) it was expected we would be required to purchase our shells on site from the ATA. But alas the Walmort store in Sparta sold several truck loads of shells at prices below those available at the Grand. I just hope they take a good lesson from 2006 and plan accordingly. Pre-squad should give them a hint as to what they can expect. That is unless they drop that or change the system.
Sorry to be pessimistic, but the ATA leadership has not taken a responsible position. Look at the U S Open. They overestimated it as well and then dropped it without a couple of years study to determine it's value. A totally discussed member of the ATA with the current leadership. (And I love this sport and fully realize many of our current leadership are fine hard working and creditable individuals). - Jim Elliott
After a first year of experience operating at Sparta the ATA will, hopefully, make adjustments so that future years will be more successful. If there is a second year of financial distress the Past President's group should step-in and force change on management that will prevent collapse of the association.
It would be foolhardy to run the ATA into the ground for lack of willingness to make some fundamental operating changes. Now is the time for solid business practices to be adopted.
One of the big problems with Sparta is the overall location ... it is kind of out in the boonies. The town of Sparta has no real infrastructure to support large crowds. The infrastructure of the area is not capable of handling large volumes of cars/lodging/food and such.
It is from what people say a fantastic new facility and is very shooter friendly for all sports but ... it has the problems mentioned above. Its just not the ATA that might be losing money or having a problem but all shooting competions there as a whole.
Lets go down a list here from what people said last year after the Grand.
Food was high in cost.
Venders were high in cost and would not come down in price during the Grand or at the end of the Grand.
Between the standing buildings for the venders and the tent venders there was about 1 to 2 miles difference.
Crowded as hell.
Cops were all over the place taking notes I guess.
I would also like to know how the ATA LOST MONEY from one of last years shoots. I think it was the U.S Open shoot. They said they lost $58,000.00 How could that have happened when they had lower over head? I never did find out how the ATA did in cost for the Grand. Did they make money or lose money. OH, I forgot. We ATA members are not allowed to know or have that info. ATA rules.
I don't see the Grand lasting much longer with the way they are doing things.
I don't guarantee anything unless I am the one in charge of whatever it is that I am going to signature a guarantee on ...
When all of the promises were made by the State of Illinois there was never a motion made for allocation of funding, yet leases were being signed and agreed to as if it was there and running ... The State pulled it together at the last minute by pushing for the allocation of funding and might of even used the pending lease to close the deal when it was presented ... I know enough about Politics in the State of Illinois to make a grown man cry and thats not because its all to the benefit of the people of the State but more so to the benefit of the Politicians who sponsor such things as the WSC being or not being built or ever becoming reality ... The fact is the WSC is not and cannot reasonably be called a success at this time and it may take more time than most thought because of the location and the states insistance of a continual barrage of bills, house bills etc. to make guns even more restrictive while they profess to promote guns by building the WSC ... If you try to keep up and follow along you might just learn something ... The existance of the WSC and its location may well of been part of the reason it didn't break any attendance records for the ATA though there are no doubt a few other things that may and probably were part of the reason besides ... The jury is still out on the WSC, but like any new business it has to be afforded the time to be or become successful and there is a lot of work to be done in the immediate area to make that happen ... Thats just the way it is, stay tuned you might learn more than you'd think by paying attention to who says what before you make stupid statements ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
Unruly - I do not know where you got your information. There was no crowd problem. Food was fairly priced and the service in the lunch room and dinning rooms was very good. Prices at vendors row were normal. The only complaint I heard was the separation of the vendors. Vendor buildings on the West. (Excellent facilities) and tent vendors on the East about a mile away. Other than the inconvenience (more to the vendors than patrons) you could drive to either area with parking never seeming to be a problem.
My comments about were poor planning. For example. The ATA purchased new Pat traps. But then had a setter in each house. Could have been managed with far fewer. After all that was one of the purposes of purchasing Pat Traps. Lower costs for personnel.
I personally have no complaints about the facility. It is truly far superior to Vandalia. And the shooting background is excellent. All fields can be driven to and again parking was not a problem. Line is far enough from parking areas and the set back of the walkways and gun rack areas allows for an
excellent shooting line, with little to no noice and the fields are far enough apart to put cross calls at a very minimum.
My advise before listening to those nay sayers go there and see for yourself. - Jim
Unruly you are so full of s??t. You are just doing the same old BS, spew some lies and hope someone believes it. Nothing you said has any truth in it. Either go there and give an accurate report or shut the hell up.