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Discussion Starter #1
I don't think anyone would argue that the Obama Administration is both radically anti-gun and radically pro-environment. While you may be familiar with the attacks on our Second Amendment Rights, you may not be aware that Obama administrative regulations have already closed 155 coal fired electricity plants with dozens more to come. Not only have the workers at these plants lost their jobs but thousands more coal miners have lost theirs as well. As people doubtlessly view electricity and jobs far more important than shooting ranges, don't think for a minute the EPA is concerned about your club being closed down if it is for the "greater good".

Clicking on the link above, you can read about the proposed new EPA regulations concerning control of water on private property. In short, they would allow the EPA and Army Corp of Engineers to trace back from any navigable waterway or major wetland,(think big river, Great Lakes, all coastal waters and any swamp you can't through a rock across)to any trickle of a stream or farm pond. It also gives any gun hater the opportunity to sue your club if you are depositing lead onto any land that drains to one of those streams or wetlands and it doesn't have to be a year around stream.

Now, I know there are those on this forum who will argue that lead is not toxic in the form of deposited shot or bullets and, they are 100% correct. However, the reality of the world is that people perceive it to be toxic and will use these regulations to bankrupt your club right out of existence because they have unlimited resources to sue your club and you will be paying $400 an hour to defend your club along with hiring environmental consultants, civil engineers, biological surveyors, etc. and etc. How much of that can your club afford? Keep in mind that your club will be shutdown while all the fight takes place and the fight will take years.

So, what can you do? The number one and most important thing you can do to assure that your club stays open is to be PROACTIVE. Beat them to the punch. Unfortunately, here is where you will find the biggest enemy to your club and that is the officer/board member(s) who will stand neck deep in De Nile and say "We have been shooting here for 50 years and nothing has happened yet. Let's wait until something happens and then we will deal with it". That attitude has closed dozens of gun clubs. It can cost 10 times more to do anything if you wait until the government shows up or you get served with a lawsuit.

Second, survey your property and determine if you can physically isolate your target and shot fall areas from draining into any stream or wetlands. This is the BEST thing you can do. A few years ago, when I was Facilities Chair at North Hollywood Sportsman's Club, the Board saw the wisdom in investing in a major regrading and construction program to isolate our shot fall and target fall areas from the big seasonal river that runs through our property. We back slanted runoff catchment areas so that runoff would be directed into catchment basins with piped overflows so that all water from the shot fall areas could be contained/controlled and no shot could migrate to the river bed. We also constructed trenches between our traps and the target field to contain all runoff water from those areas. Did it cost some money? It sure did but it cost a fraction of what it would have cost if we were to have to do it under a government directive.

Third, if you can't regrade your land or you are putting lead onto someone else's property, consider a shot curtain or reconfiguring your fields to shoot in a better direction. Maybe you have been blessed with a benign neighbor who has never complained. That could quickly change if the EPA or other government department comes calling or he gets sued by an anti-gun group.

In summary, we would be naive to think that the anti-gunners won't use every trick or rule in the book to take away our gun rights and ability to shoot. Be proactive! Don't give the anti-gunners or government types a toe hold in shutting down your club. Be prepared with solutions in place when they show up because they will show up sooner or later. Don't let the status quo guys in your club put off taking corrective and protective action. As gun club members we have been granted a stewardship of our gun clubs by the members who came before us. We must use our stewardship in these changing times to assure that our clubs stay open for future generations. Do not shirk that responsibility.
 

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As long as there is NO accountability and NO way to sue the agency/agency's, YES THEY will come after you!! AND no "factual data" will deter THEIR "agenda"!!

Just like they did us water user's in the PNW, their claim was "we(farmers) were
stealing water from a newly listed fish AKA Salmon, WHICH we still catch and eat!!

IT is way past time to rid ourselves of the likes of the EPA and repeal the ESA!!!
 
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Ok, so how much is the minimum cost to install your shot curtain on one trap field?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The cost to install a curtain will vary a great deal based upon the cost on installing the support poles and rigging. These costs are affected by the type and length of poles required, whether the curtain will be static or raised and lowered, the availability of installation labor, type of soil and terrain. A range for poles and rigging should be $6,000 to $12,000. The material, which we manufacture would run about $11,000.

Doing 2 or more field lowers the cost per field because you get the benefit of overlapping coverage. A single field would require a 180' long curtain but two adjacent fields might only need another 90 feet. A third field would only need another 90 feet so, three fields can be covered for only twice the cost of one field.

Of course, a curtain makes lead recovery a lot more economical and if you use a catchment tarp, the shot can be resold immediately as reclaimed shot. You should recover about an ounce of lead per target shot so figure your target consumption and do the math.

While a curtain can keep shot from going where you don't want it, regrading the property to contain and manage water runoff is the first thing a club should consider whether it needs a curtain or not.

A lot of earth can be moved under an ag grubbing and clearing permit or exemption without involving a civil engineer. A good dozer operator can get a lot done for not a lot of money.
 

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Installing a shot curtain is a real shitty idea at my club. There are 13 traps. It is flat as hell and it is in a wind tunnel. Tell me how that's going to work.
 

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Are you shooting into the wind, or with it?
 

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What wind speed are the curtains rated to?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Brian,

At Redlands, a fixed installation, the poles and rigging are rated for 55 MPH at a 90 degree angle. The one big wind we have had we had a couple of panels come loose by the panels pulling the hog rings open.(the panels are attached to the horizontal cables with hog rings.) That allowed those two to just flap in the wind.


The fabric is pretty tough stuff and is knitted rather than woven so it is really hard to tear. That's why the wind rating is on the poles and rigging.
 

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our club currently has one field and it faces the prevailing wind and sun is an issue in the late summer. we plan on putting another field in facing more towards the north and away from the afternoon sun. so if we wanted these on both fields we'd be looking at another 30K? not feasible.
 

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Don't forget REMEDIATION...
 

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The Clean Water Act was used against my operation to require us to apply and maintain an EPA NPDES environmental permit. That was 15 years ago...

Shot curtain v. non-tox shot... if you're faced with shutdown; make the choice that works for you...

Jay
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Jay,

Hopefully, a club just has to make that choice. However, what this rule does is bring club property drainage into play which is the point of this thread. If your property topography is such that water drains from your target and/or shot fall areas, you REALLY need to do something about it. Steel shot and/or a shot curtain may only be part of the solution. Club officers need to get a drainage assessment done ASAP and take corrective grading measures to keep rain water on their property.

Think of it this way: What do you think you would get from a chemical analysis if you took a 5 gallon bucket, put in a shovel of dirt/broken targets/wads from your target field and added a couple of gallons of water?

Now, try to imagine justifying to the EPA your club's discharging that little cocktail of chemistry into a stream or wetlands.
 

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That was exactly my situation... a convoluted series of drainage swales were connected to create that CWA Waters of the US link...

We actually ran a TCLP test on our target debris pile which allowed us to toss our target debris in with regular garbage...

Old rules for point sources which were never meant for shooting ranges...

Regards,

Jay
 

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So, since Oblaster shoots skeet all the time at Camp David, I guess he'll set a good example and have a shot curtain installed there? Yea, right.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well, seeing how the government overpays for stuff, selling Camp David some shot curtain would make us rich! LOL
 

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I suggest you look at the work of Steven T. Petrucelli, Environmental Engineer, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

Contrary to what you might think about a government employee this guy appears to be on our side.

His argument is this - one shooting range doesn't contain enough lead to be an issue the US government is interested in, but multiply those numbers by the total number of ranges in the USA and government eyes pay attention.

His solution is to be pro-active - have a 'best practice' protocol in place and if/when the government boys show up you will be fine.

He has even produced, along with others a best practice package - if you would like a copy of the documents PM me with an e-mail address and I'll forward it to you. The folder is about 13 MB so be sure your mail carrier will accept files of this size.

David D
 

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ShotStop- Good point! LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The EPA in conjunction with the National Shooting Sports Foundation developed the "Best Lead Management Practices" program to which David D. refers. It allowed a club to anonymously submit a Lead Management Plan through the NSSF and once accepted, the EPA would issue a certificate to the club. While the certificate had no true legal authority the idea was that with a plan in place and accepted, the club would at least have some "moral authority" on it's side.

However, when the Obama administration took over in 2009, it cancelled the certificate program. Never the less, as David indicates it is a really good idea to have a written Plan in place. The link above gives complete info on the program. They take a bit of research and time to do but it can be well worth the expense and effort. The one I wrote for NHSC centered around our regrading program.

Again, under the new, proposed Rules it is critical that you retain runoff water on your property and that project then can become the centerpiece of your Best Lead Management Practices Plan as well.

If any club has any questions, please feel free to PM me and we can talk.

Jim
 
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