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Every once in while just to be a pain in the butt, I start the conversation at the Club questioning why dusting a target is not considered a "broken bird". You have hit the bird because you can see dust fly off, but the score keeper says "lost". ATA has there reasons, but it seems to me that if can see the dust off a bird at forty yards why isn't that a broken bird. Seeing Dust at forty yards is surely pieces if you held them in your hand. Why isn't DUST at Piece?

It must be something?

True blue and Diamond hard,
Harry
 

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Because it is just dust, not a piece. A piece is a piece and dust is dust. It has to be a visable piece. John
 

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Must have something to do with trap's beginnings when manly men shot at real pigeons.

To kill one you had to knock chunks offn' so everybody else could see that it wasn't gonna fly no further.

Ifn' you just dusted a few feathers offn' it, you didn't kill it, it got away... so you "lost".

Keller
 

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Good question and technically the 'dust' is several visable pieces. But I think we know the intent of the rules.

On the other hand I have seen some incredibly small chips that get counted as broken targets.
 

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What brand of targets are you shooting? I shoot at one club that uses Champion targets and I see quite a few targets that get "dusted" and never break. I hit a Champion target one time and I swear that I saw a spark fly. Seems odd that lead shot would create a spark, but it makes me wonder what Champion makes their targets out of.

As far as dust vs. chips... If it is raining, no dust to worry about, you either break it, or you don't. It simplifies the scoring.

If you feel you broke the bird and someone else on your squad seconds the protest, shouldn't the scorer give you the hit?
 

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Get a pair of binoculars and see what you think when they call a loss. The targets are tough to track and lock on. You will get a headache if you watch to many, least I did.

Surfer
 

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Sort of like a question I wanted to ask once.Whole squad watched as one fella's wad actually hit the bird and it broke.Now everyone knows the shot is in front of the wad,so it seems to me he missed with the shot,the wad hit it and it broke.We all just shook our heads and scorer naturally counted bird because it broke the bird.I guess it doesn't matter what breaks the bird,as long as it came out of your gun.

Doug H.
 

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Bvr Tail:

You asked, "What if the target is hit so hard that there is no visible pieces left"?

Section VII, paragraph B covers your question as well as Har3rdus' original question.

"A target (called “Dead”) is one that is fired upon and has a visible broken
piece from it, or one that is completely reduced to dust."

sissy
 

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What about the target that completely changes direction? No dust, no visible chips same argument. Still it's a lost target. Paul in GINebraska.
 

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I guess they felt they had to draw the line somewhere. I was once told that "they just score them, they don't grade 'em." Not true as far as a dusted target is concerned. They decided to call a "dusted" target a loss just because it wasn't broken enough.
 

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Paul, changing the direction of the clay can't count either, no visible piece. When I'm shooting or referring, I watch dusted targets all the way to ground impact. Sometimes a dusted clay will finally break apart before hitting the ground!! Worn throwing plates give less RPMs to the targets making them even tougher to break! Target manufacturers are changing their recipes somewhat making them a tad harder to break also. The combination of worn machines and harder targets should make the shooters watch all shots attempted, especially the ones drawing dust! Targets are becoming a lot more difficult than in the past to completely reduce to dust only, specifically in handicap shooting.

Hap
 

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Sort of like getting the football over the goal line but having one foot on the side line. I guess it still should count.

Or when the batter hits the wall near the top of the wall but the ball doesn't quite go over the wall. That should be a home run, eh?

Or hitting the rim but the ball doesn't quite go in. It should still count.

Or your putt 'rims' the hole and almost goes in, but not quite.

Or you hit the car in front of you at the stoplight, but you didn't mean to do it, so you tell the cop it shouldn't count - forget the report.

Or, your 12 year old comes home with a report card and she has an 'F', but she says she tried really hard. "Oh honey, it's OK".

Or, when you are in your foxhole and you shoot and wing the enemy but he keeps coming at you. Darn, he should lay down and play dead..........

Just follow the rules and you'll be fine.

Gene Batchelar
Wheaton, IL
 

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What Hap says about the targets coming apart well after the shot is true. One of the biggest reasons that Remington's clay targets fell out of favor of the ATA was that they were coming apart even if no one shot.

The last year they used them at the Grand in Ohio I saw quite a few targets called dead that weren't hit by a shot, broke apart much later and called dead. What a mess that was. They met the definition of a "dead bird" according to the rules.
 

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why is smoking a target a hit and scuffing all of the paint off of a target with a string of shot a miss? they're both just dust in the air, aren't they?
 

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What about a target that keeps flying and flying and then falls apart into two big pieces about a foot off the ground?
 

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Chango2,

That would be a dead target, if, and only if, the scorer is diligent enough to watch the target all the way to the ground.

But what Barry said is correct. Someone had to make up the rules, and they needed a repeatable, consistent criteria. They had to draw the line somewhere. And the line was drawn at "visible chip."
 
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