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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wondering who has tried in a Winchester hull , ched 209 , 17.5 of 700 X , Windjammer CB4100-12B
with 7/8 oz of shot ? As I'm looking for a soft shooting Doubles / 16 yd load , I could use some help ?

Thanks for your time
 

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Your thread title does not give the reader any clue what this thread is really about and your OP does not say what, if any, problem, you are having with your load. What does "luck" have to do with reloading? Where did you get that load from because I don't see any 700X 7/8 oz. loads in the Hodgdon reloading data. No 24 gram loads either with the other components you list. You should go back to the drawing board with this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
This loading Data came out of the Clay Buster CB 410012B Wad bag , it's a yellow leaflet , detailing their usage in 1 and 7/8 0z loads .
 

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This loading Data came out of the Clay Buster CB 410012B Wad bag , it's a yellow leaflet , detailing their usage in 1 and 7/8 0z loads .
OK. In reply to the question asked in the title of your thread: No. In the entire history of reloading, no one has had anything approaching "luck." It's all done scientifically so luck does not enter into it. With regard to the rest of it, is there some problem you are having with your load?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
To tell you the truth Nebs I got these wads in a trade and finally got around to looking up a load for them so , that's the reason for the question...... It's a tested load otherwise CB would not of printed it , right !
Thought maybe You reloading Gurus might have some experience with this load ? just asking !
 

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Checking the Hodgden reloading site and I see no recipes for a Win hull, 7/8 oz load using 700x.. suggest you go another direction. I realize it is printed on a "yellow leaflet" in the bag of wads, but personally I defer to the data provided by the powder manufacturers.

PS - as Nebs said - there is no such thing as "luck" when it comes to reloading.. the day your "luck" goes bad could be a really bad day for you and the people shooting near you.
 

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I would have issues with this load on the second bird of doubles. It is a pokey load with less shot, and this tends to give lackluster results.

If the stack height is right, it will work.

There are several ways to get around using this type of load. Check your gun fit. If the gun beats on you, it likely does not fit. Another is to get a Beretta 400 with the Kick Off system and use standard loads.

I would not use this load for anything but recreational shooting, which would not include doubles. At 70, I also do not enjoy recoil, but having several guns that properly fit me helps reduce felt recoil with standard loads to a manageable level.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Oh I agree it's a load for practicing with less recoil and it will allow more attention for pinpoint accuracy , NO ? As my O/U with a 18.4 bore has fixed chokes of .025 Top / .035 B !
I sure would think 383 grs (355 pellets) of hard 8's would smoke a clay target at Doubles distances....Right ?
 

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Oh I agree it's a load for practicing with less recoil and it will allow more attention for pinpoint accuracy , NO ? As my O/U with a 18.4 bore has fixed chokes of .025 Top / .035 B !
I sure would think 383 grs (355 pellets) of hard 8's would smoke a clay target at Doubles distances....Right ?
Pinpoint accuracy? We are talking shotguns right?? A 7/8 ounce load of 8s will smoke both doubles targets. No problem
 

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Good Practices and Good Sense make good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Good practices and good sense take luck out of the equation. No one should rely in any way on "luck" when it comes to reloading. The objective is to take away as much as possible the influence of chance on the practice of reloading. The objective is to completely eliminate it.
I think you're right Nebs but I have to say , I have worked up loads that were as precise as anyone could get only to find out , my gun choke didn't like it !
The Luck I was insinuating was , asking if this load worked well , in what type of gun / choke combination ? I'm sure the practice of reloading shotshells and Metallic for some 50 years has shown me , you can't
be any more precise than the equipment you load with ? The good recipe books do help a lot too ! Thanks for your concern .
 

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I think you're right Nebs but I have to say , I have worked up loads that were as precise as anyone could get only to find out , my gun choke didn't like it !
The Luck I was insinuating was , asking if this load worked well , in what type of gun / choke combination ? I'm sure the practice of reloading shotshells and Metallic for some 50 years has shown me , you can't
be any more precise than the equipment you load with ? The good recipe books do help a lot too ! Thanks for your concern .
Your OP insinuated nothing of the sort. And, gun chokes have no feelings.
 

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I haven't found the load you are quoting in 700-X. I am not a big fan of 700-x mainly due to metering issues in the past . My go to powder is Red Dot (Promo data per "grain" is the same but not by "volume" since a bushing will not drop the same per volume in Red Dot/Promo) A scale is your friend . Data for Cheddite primers is sketchy at best. Some say Win. 209 primers produce the same pressure but, since I have no "tested" evidence of that and I only list "Tested" data to anyone I would only offer this load for you to try
Winchester AA Plastic Shells 7/8 oz. shot -- 1,200 FPS -- Win 209 primer -- 16.5grains Red Dot Powder WAA12SL, DRXL-1 or Jammer XL-1 wads 7.300 psi This one is from the Alliant powder guide and I have used it with good success. You might try looking at some 24 gram loads .The loads in 7/8 oz. are CLOSE to 24 grams but not exact . 7/8 Oz. =24.81 grams . As for data listed on wad bags ,I am a bit skeptical. The loads listed by powder manufactures are tested under controlled lab conditions and those are the ones I trust. Also, all loads I have seen for 7/8 loads try to keep the pressure up to 7,000 psi or better. As far a Gun "liking a load" ( I assume you mean patterning well with it) I try to stay away from any choke less that Imp.Mod. (even for the first shot in doubles)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hey Thanks slide Action I appreciate your reply , this is all I asked "IF" someone has tried a similar load and experienced a better recipe ! I did go with Red Dot as I thumbed through the Alliant loading Data
as I have a half doz bags of WAA12SL wads . Have you Tried the Windjammer 4100-12B wad ?
 

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Ravenanme, I think this is what you were referring to: CB4100-12 Load Data

I have used several bags of the 4100-12B "Lightning" wad, and those are okay, but I had more than a few out of a bag that made bloopy sounding shells, as if the wad was not situated quite right in the hull. I still broke birds with those, but funky sounding shells have a tendency to let the "head worms" run wild, and get you off of your game. For 7/8 ounce loads I'm pretty much dead set on Claybuster CB0178-12 or WAA12L clones (grey ones), as there are several published loads for those.

I have used 700X but I wasn't looking for a lot of speed, and only loaded 16 to 16.5 grains. I've also used Red Dot, E-3, Nitro 100, WAA Lite, Extra-Lite, and WST. I presume Titewad and IMR Red would work well too, but I haven't loaded 7/8 ounce with those powders. The bottom line is that there are a lot of good powders to choose from.

I always found (and believe others would agree) that Cheddite and Winchester primers have similar heat or brisance. However, it seems like Winchester primers don't have issues with the occasional firing pin puncture like Cheddites do. Nevertheless, your stated load in your initial post/thread wouldn't scare me, considering you're down in the 8,000 psi range. You are certainly not exceeding any pressures stated in the data that Claybuster supplies for the 4100-12B wad, considering Cheddite and Winchester similarities. I would presume that if Claybuster put that information in the wad bags, and on their website/internet, that those loads were pressure tested to a level of accuracy on par with the powder manufacturers.
 

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Yes I have and used the CB 4100 wad in the in Federal Hulls with "Federal Hulls" and Federal 209 A primer (again no listed data for Cheddite primers) and had good results but can not comment as to results in the Win. Hulls , and you are using Win. Hulls so I list that info HOWEVER, A disclaimer here The loads listed are the primer of each company and the Cheddite primer is NOT listed . In my discussion with their Reps. they say to stick exactly with their data including PRIMERS so I make no absolutely no recommendation as to the use of Cheddite primers as they list ONLY Win. primers in that hull. I have copy and pasted their data as it appears from their web site below.------- This is Clay Buster's data for the "CB-4100 wad." ----
7/8's Ounce Shot Loads
Winchester Hull
Primer
Powder Grains Velocity F.P.S. Pressure P.S.I
WIN 209 Clays 17 1200 7000
WIN 209 Clays 18 1250 7500
WIN 209 Clays 19.6 1300 8500
WIN 209 Internat' 1 20 1200 6700
WIN 209 Internat' 1 20.5 1250 7200
WIN 209 Internat' 1 21 1300 7900
WIN 209 Green Dot 21 1300 8500
WIN 209 700X 16 1200 6500
WIN 209 700X 17 1250 7400
WIN 209 700X 18.5 1300 8600
WIN 209 P.B. 20.5 1200 5700
WIN 209 P.B. 21.5 1250 6300
WIN 209 Red Dot 16.5 1200 7600
WIN 209 Red Dot 17.5 1250 8600
WIN 209 Red Dot 19 1300 9400
WIN 209 American Select 18.5 1250 7200
WIN 209 7625 23.5 1200 5000
WIN 209 7625 25 1250 5600
WIN 209 Nitro 100 17.5 1325 7700
WIN 209 Solo 1000 19.5 1325 8500 ------Hope this helps
 
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