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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So I have a 1963 model 12 and haven't been able to figure out which variation it is. I've been told it does not have the original stock (based off the checkering) so it's either custom or aftermarket. But I don't know if it's a standard model just dolled up or not. I've thought about purchasing a Cody Firearms Record form to figure out if it's a trap model but don't want to be heart broken and out however much if it's not. Here's some pictures. It is 12 ga., 2&3/4", 30"barrel, full choke with the super deluxe walnut stock. There is also an N.P. stamped directly below the trigger guard. Any help will be GREATLY appreciated!
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Discussion Starter #3
Great Find...Shes a Shooter ..Enjoy. Bart
Thanks! I work at a gun shop and the boss gave it to me for $650 so I'm definitely not complaining! That was about 4 months ago and since then, I've started trap shooting and have gotten a 24 and a lot of 23s!
 

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Sounds Like Your Well on Your Way...And Love the Fact..That Everyday Your Working..You can Be Looking for Your Next Trap Gun..Lol
Shoot Well...Shoot Often with Family and or Good Friends, Bart
 

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Are you sure it has a 3" chamber and not a 2 3/4" chamber? Winchester stopped production of 3" chambered (Heavy Duck) Model 12's around 1960. It looks like a very late 3 Pin VR Trap Grade which someone put after market custom wood on. The gun has a 1969 SN. It's likely one of the last of the 3 Pin's made. Cody does not have very many records on Winchester shotguns. It is not likely they can tell you anything more than I already stated above. $650 is definitely not a steal nor a good price. Your boss sold it to you for full retail and didn't "give" you anything. Fair market value today is around $500-525 on the gun as shown. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sorry. I'll edit that! It is for sure a 2&3/4". According to Winchester's serial no. dating, it is 1963 and I've had several guys verify that. Cody has quite a few model 12 records so I might contact them. As far as the stock, a lotta guys think it's custom ordered. From Winchester or not, don't know. Wouldn't make much sense for the guy to rip off the original forearm and stock and pay a couple hundred extra just for the wood. I don't know, just what I thought. I have been told Winchester did do "build up" traps but what does the build up part all include??
 

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According to the George Madis Book "The Winchester Model 12" which is considered the most accurate information on model 12 shotguns, the SN dates the gun to 1969. If you are looking on-line at the Winchester collectors site or Winchester site, the information they have is inaccurate.

The wood checkering pattern wasn't ever offered by Winchester or the Winchester Custom shop as a standard checkering pattern.

A lot of Trap grade guns came and were sold with straight comb stocks. Trap shooters are notorious for altering trap guns in every way conceivable and it's not a surprise to see aftermarket Monte Carlo wood put on a Model 12 trap gun or any Trap gun for that matter, to the contrary most trap guns were and are altered or modified.

Winchester would do just about anything a customer wanted them to in the Custom shop. The issue today is being able to prove it was a Winchester Custom shop upgrade or not.

That being said, without an authentic Winchester work order documenting it was done in the Custom shop, or verifiable documentation and photos in one of the Winchester books (George Madis book), or verifiable documentation in a Winchester advertiment/literature/sales add of the day, it is virtually impossible to say it was done by Winchester in the Custom shop.

It's easy to say it's not standard Winchester Trap grade checkering because that wasn't a standard Trap grade checkering style nor was it one of the standard John Durkin (lead carver (checkerer) 1948-1984 in Custom shop) higher grade checkering patterns (A or B Carved) done by John or one of the other Custom shop carvers (checkerers).

All this being said, collectors would view this as after market wood and checkering.
 

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Where were you when you created this thread? It ended up in the Forum Information Area.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Huh! Shouldn'ta been! But then again I was up for over 18 hours when I posted this. Pat McKean, thanks for the compliments but for cryin out loud, focus, man! I mean, I love your attention to detail but I'm more curious about the gun! I'm just pickin! It just kinda made me laugh. Everyone else is givin their opinions on the gun and then we get "Nice wood in the door too"! Thanks for checkin it out
 

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Is this a gun that you wanted ? Is it a gun that you are happy with . Could you afford what you paid for it ? If the answer to these questions is yes , it doesn't matter what any one else thinks .
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yes. Yes. And yes! I absolutely LOVE this gun and have never regretted buying it. I think I'll send out for one of those Cody Firearm Records forms and see just exactly what we got. Hopefully, a trap model!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
And I have looked that up in Winchester's books and have been told that by a lot of others. Just barely pre-'64! Is it true that Winchester didn't always stamp "TRAP" on the models after the '50s?? I read on a different thread that after about the mid '50s, Winchester didn't always stamp their models??
 

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Discussion Starter #16
In case the picture isn't entirely clear, the s.n. is 1.966***. Winchester's dates clearly say '63 BUT...some other sites are saying '69! And according to them, '63 would be about 1.3*****! How they can be some 60,000 numbers apart, I don't know. I would think that Winchester would be the one to know, after all, they're the manufacturer! But some are saying otherwise. For now, it makes sense to trust the manufacturer until I'm proved otherwise. Still think I'll contact Cody Firearms Records though!
 

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Winchester hasn't made a model 12 since the 1970's. Why would the manufacturer who has been in and out of the gun business, bought, sold, and resold have information on a product line which hasn't been produced in 40 years?

It's a 1969 gun. If you had posted better photos of the top of the receiver, duckbill and side of rib (pins) we could tell you for sure it's a 3 Pin VR Trap Grade model 12 or not. I'd be interested to hear what Cody has to say....

Why are the numbers 60K off? Because only those who have had access to actual factory records, i.e. George Madis and a few select others, have the factual information. The on-line information is a best guess.

An unmolested unaltered original 3 Pin Trap in high condition is a $900-1000 gun to the right buyer. The 3 Pin Trap is not considered a collectable model 12, even in high condition.

Glad you like it, it should be a fine shooter.
 

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And I have looked that up in Winchester's books and have been told that by a lot of others. Just barely pre-'64! Is it true that Winchester didn't always stamp "TRAP" on the models after the '50s?? I read on a different thread that after about the mid '50s, Winchester didn't always stamp their models??
1949 was the last year they stamped "MODEL-12-TRAP" on the receiver extension around SN 119XXXX.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Thanks for the info! I just sent for a Cody form, so it'll be interesting to see what they find in about 4 weeks. When I receive the records form I'll update the thread. But for now, here's just a buttload of more pics. I'll break em up so it's not so much in one post. Any further help would be GREATLY appreciated!
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