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There was a thread about how shot hardness produces better patterns. I have looked at manufacturers websites to find out which one of their products have harder shot. It has been hard to get that kind of information from each of their sites. I found that AA's and STS Remington's have hard shot (not sure of their percent). Does anyone know the harder shot products of other brands, and which shells have the hardest shot? Thank you for any information.
 

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Add Federal Gold Medals to that list and you'll have the ones with the hardest shot.
 

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I thought Neil's tests several years ago showed Winchester AA's to have nice hard shot. I suppose that could all change from batch to batch.
 

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Steel shot will be harder that lead shot, but I don't think that is what you are asking. The other question that I have is that one of the companies ( maybe Remington?) is advertising their shot as having 2-5% antimony hardness equivalent? What are they using to make it "equivalent" other than antimony? Tin? Just wondering.
Mike
 

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Yes, Win. AA's, and Rem STS's, and Federal Gold Metal's all have 6 % antimony lead shot!!! Now if you want a economy load that has higher than the normal 3% antimony (which most have) you have to look at Keman's (imports) and Federal's Estate line of ammo (made in the USA). Do not get Federal's Estate's mixed up with the imported line of Estate's that bears the Federal name. This imported line comes in a White Box and is made in France if memory serves. Yes higher antimony loads will break more targets period. Most shooters will tell you, that it matters very little for 16 yard targets, but it matters much more the farther you move back in handicap. Many shooters will practice will low antimony, but shoot matches with high antimony loads. Its important to stay consistent, so use the same payload, speed, shot size when you do this and all will be fine. break em all Jeff
 

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I'm sure I have read a comment from Neil that AA's were the best in the category being discussed.
Remington and Federal are probably same in there top line of shells.
 

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This year at the Grand, Neil and I tested Remington STS and Winchester AA's and they were about the same. I understand Neil and Pheasantmaster (might have been later the same day) tested Federal Gold Medals and they were as hard or slightly harder.

We also tested some other brands like Clever, and they were substantially softer.
 

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There was a thread about how shot hardness produces better patterns. I have looked at manufacturers websites to find out which one of their products have harder shot. It has been hard to get that kind of information from each of their sites. I found that AA's and STS Remington's have hard shot (not sure of their percent). Does anyone know the harder shot products of other brands, and which shells have the hardest shot? Thank you for any information.
In recent "crush tests" performed by Neil using Grand purchased ammo:

Federal Gold Medals showed the hardest, followed by Winchester's AA's and then Remington's. Minor amount of hardness difference but you did ask who had the hardest shot.
 

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...which leads me to predict that when I get the patterns shot (this week??) as I do every year, GM/STS/AA will post percentages at 40 yards of slightly above 75% when shot from my workhorse "GH" Perazzi Mirage and the differences among them will be non-significant. The AC&F Scott put us on to will lag a little, and the rest by a lot.

Neil
 

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My data is a bit dated. I haven't tested in almost 3 years. Testing and re-testing periodically over a 5 year timeframe, I found that nothing ever challenged Lawrence Magnum deformation resistance. Since Lawrence Magnum isn't readily available to me, I now use West Coast Magnum.
Feb, 2014


#7.5 shot / Relative Hardness

Lawrence Magnum =100

Eagle Magnum = 97

Federal Premium Flyer = 95

B&P F2 Mach = 92

Remington Nitro 27's =91

Winchester AA = 91

Federal Gold Medal Paper = 91

West Coast Magnum = 91

Lawrence Magnum Copper = 87

Winchester SuperSport = 84

Rio = 84

Federal Premium Field Copper =77

Fiocchi Nickel Little Rhino =74

Winchester Super Target =74

Remington Gun Club =74

Remington Nitro Express =73

Winchester Black Diamond Nickel =70

Gamebore White Gold Nickel =68

Remington Game Load 16ga =68

Fiocchi (Italy) HV Field =68
 

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I'll try again. Does anyone know what is being used in lead to get an antimony equivalence of 6% . Or 4%? It must be something other than antimony if they say equivalent.

Mike
 

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Does Rio make any shells that have a high amount of antimony?
Yes Rio makes a green hull that is supposed to have the same 5% antimony that the Keman's have. Its only made in the higher speed rounds I believe, and named Star Team in 3 payloads, and one in top Sporting as well. I have also heard that the US made Fed. Estate's had the same 5% antimony in them as well. This is all info I have picked up in shooting mag's over the years. Some of this info is close to a decade old. So shoot what you like and break em all Jeff

Gatta Go----pain is high, and its time for some pills.
 

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From 16 yards and Short yardage low antimony shot in tight chokes works pretty for the most part but, once you get farther back towards "The Fence" It begins to really make a difference. That is why the pros who shoot from the 27 all shoot premium ammo such as AA, STS, and Fed. GM Premium shells. I have heard that *RIO Elites Rival them in antimony content but have no way of knowing . As far as bagged shot I don't know . Lawrence always did me great job. I never knew the antimony content in Remington shot ( which unfortunately I can no longer get) until Scott posted it But, I sure knew it was hard and threw great patterns.
 

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This year at the Grand, Neil and I tested Remington STS and Winchester AA's and they were about the same. I understand Neil and Pheasantmaster (might have been later the same day) tested Federal Gold Medals and they were as hard or slightly harder.

We also tested some other brands like Clever, and they were substantially softer.
My data is a bit dated. I haven't tested in almost 3 years. Testing and re-testing periodically over a 5 year timeframe, I found that nothing ever challenged Lawrence Magnum deformation resistance. Since Lawrence Magnum isn't readily available to me, I now use West Coast Magnum.
Feb, 2014


#7.5 shot / Relative Hardness

Lawrence Magnum =100

Eagle Magnum = 97

Federal Premium Flyer = 95

B&P F2 Mach = 92

Remington Nitro 27's =91

Winchester AA = 91

Federal Gold Medal Paper = 91

West Coast Magnum = 91

Lawrence Magnum Copper = 87

Winchester SuperSport = 84

Rio = 84

Federal Premium Field Copper =77

Fiocchi Nickel Little Rhino =74

Winchester Super Target =74

Remington Gun Club =74

Remington Nitro Express =73

Winchester Black Diamond Nickel =70

Gamebore White Gold Nickel =68

Remington Game Load 16ga =68

Fiocchi (Italy) HV Field =68
How were you guys testing?
I'd like to do my own testing on shells I go through but just want to make sure I'm doing repeatable testing that gives meaningful results.

Specific load applied to two plates with a single piece of shot between them? Measure distance deformed?
 

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How were you guys testing?
I'd like to do my own testing on shells I go through but just want to make sure I'm doing repeatable testing that gives meaningful results.

Specific load applied to two plates with a single piece of shot between them? Measure distance deformed?
Yes, kind of. It's an impact test with a known weight dropped onto an individual pellet from a known height.

Neil fabricated the device himself and it is quite ingenious. If you search you can find a post where he has photos of the device.

It really doesn't matter if the device you come up with is the same as Neil's because when you test, you are just testing the relative hardness. That is, "is this pellet harder or softer than that pellet."

If you test enough brands you'll find which one is (or ones are) hardest.

We would test 4 or 5 pellets from a given brand, measure how much they deformed (original height of the pellet and compare that to after-dropped height of the pellet.) Then compare brands.

You could take an average over 4 or 5 pellets.

Neil prefers to take the "mode" (mode is the value that appears most often in a set of data) rather than the average, for reasons I will let him explain.
 
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Thanks Tim. Right after I replied I scrolled down to the related threads and saw Neils pictures in another thread.
I'll see if i can't build something similar.

On that note the related thread section is by far one of the handiest things about this forum. Easy to get lost down a rabbit hole of something you are interested in.
 
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