What is your LOP and Pitch do you shoot & Why
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ctreay, that plus 1/4 inch of pitch seems wrong for a guy with a 16 1/2 neck . . .especially with 34-inch sleeves! We picture "a big guy" with a sloping chest and usually considerable pitch the other way.
Neil
Neil
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IDK. I leave that up to my professional fitter. He has it in a file ... somewhere.
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Now that's really odd, ctreay, but if it feels OK, I guess it's right.
I wonder if it's possible that the butt of the stock was not cut at right angles to the line of the bore, but was cut with too much angle and your negative spacer corrects for that?
Neil
I wonder if it's possible that the butt of the stock was not cut at right angles to the line of the bore, but was cut with too much angle and your negative spacer corrects for that?
Neil
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I have a friend that was getting the poop slapped off his face. We all thought, "more negative pitch ... more negative pitch"!
Wrongo. The more negative we took the harder it slapped him. We went the other way and added pitch to zero .... The slap disappeared.
You just never know, do you?
Wrongo. The more negative we took the harder it slapped him. We went the other way and added pitch to zero .... The slap disappeared.
You just never know, do you?
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That's what I was getting at, Barry.
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Perazzi TM-1 34"
14 5/8 LOP
1/8 Neg. Pitch
1/4" right off set comb, canted in pad.
6' 4" tall
220 Lbs.
37" sleeve
17 1/2" neck
After much trial with longer LOP this fits me good.
No face slap and a soft shooter.
Started shooting trap in 1983.
Hal
14 5/8 LOP
1/8 Neg. Pitch
1/4" right off set comb, canted in pad.
6' 4" tall
220 Lbs.
37" sleeve
17 1/2" neck
After much trial with longer LOP this fits me good.
No face slap and a soft shooter.
Started shooting trap in 1983.
Hal
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9,980 Posts
what is your length of Pull and how much pitch + or - in inches and 4 other factors, your height, weight and Dress shirt sleeve length. & neck size.
LOP 13.25", 2" of down pitch, 5'9", 300lbs, shirt 22, sleeve 36, neck 22. Chest 56" reason for short stock and down pitch. I use a Remington 870 TB with 28 full choke barrel. I shoot the 870 because it's reliable, and I am to cheap to purchase a more expensive gun.
Steve Balistreri
Wauwatosa Wisconsin
LOP 13.25", 2" of down pitch, 5'9", 300lbs, shirt 22, sleeve 36, neck 22. Chest 56" reason for short stock and down pitch. I use a Remington 870 TB with 28 full choke barrel. I shoot the 870 because it's reliable, and I am to cheap to purchase a more expensive gun.
Steve Balistreri
Wauwatosa Wisconsin
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Dr Longwind,
You forgot to tell us what you'll be having for breakfast .. or will you wait to eat until your done with the work ??
You forgot to tell us what you'll be having for breakfast .. or will you wait to eat until your done with the work ??
5
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"I should be done by noon.". ----- LOL
The SOB is entertaining, you have to give him credit for that.
The SOB is entertaining, you have to give him credit for that.
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Honest question..trying to keep things interesting at least
Most of my guns are 14 3/8- 14.5" LOP with +1"pitch..1/4" castoff with an extra 1/4" of toeout twist ..factory Berettas and Guerinis tend to be spot on for me
I'm 5'8" 16" neck 33" sleeve ...29" inseam ; ))
NOTHING wrong or cheap about a 870TB Steve..breakemall
Most of my guns are 14 3/8- 14.5" LOP with +1"pitch..1/4" castoff with an extra 1/4" of toeout twist ..factory Berettas and Guerinis tend to be spot on for me
I'm 5'8" 16" neck 33" sleeve ...29" inseam ; ))
NOTHING wrong or cheap about a 870TB Steve..breakemall
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Isn't pitch measured in degrees???????
My first question to Ctreay is how do you measure the pitch on your shotgun - to get everybody on the same page?
Simple but not precise - I place the shotgun on its pad next to a wall or gun locker. While the pad is flat (bot heel and toe) on the floor, I slide it so that the receiver touches the wall/locker. The barrel muzzle for a positive pitch gun will be some distance away from the wall. measure that distance for pitch.. this is simple and reasonable close but there will be significant difference between a 26" barrel and a 32" barrel.
For zero pitch the entire barrel rests on the wall when the pad is flat on the floor.
For negative pitch you can only rest the tip of the barrel against the wall and your negative pitch is from the RECEIVER to the wall
The Precise way to measure pitch is to lay a straight edge on the rib. At the end of the straightedge attach a pivoting piece that you can lock down. Pivot the piece from the straightedge downward until it lays on the heel and toe of the pad or butt. Visualize an "L" in which the base is not perpendicular. The angle from the perpendicular is the angle of pitch.
That way - if 10 degrees is right for you, you can make the pitch exactly the same from 26 to 34".
I shoot all 28-30" guns and do it the simple way... soooo,
5-10", 2 1/2 inches pitch, 1/4" cast at heel, 7/16 cast at toe, 14 1/2" LOP, 1 7/16 inch at comb to see a slight rib - not even a stacked bead, 16 1/2 neck, 207 pounds.
Simple but not precise - I place the shotgun on its pad next to a wall or gun locker. While the pad is flat (bot heel and toe) on the floor, I slide it so that the receiver touches the wall/locker. The barrel muzzle for a positive pitch gun will be some distance away from the wall. measure that distance for pitch.. this is simple and reasonable close but there will be significant difference between a 26" barrel and a 32" barrel.
For zero pitch the entire barrel rests on the wall when the pad is flat on the floor.
For negative pitch you can only rest the tip of the barrel against the wall and your negative pitch is from the RECEIVER to the wall
The Precise way to measure pitch is to lay a straight edge on the rib. At the end of the straightedge attach a pivoting piece that you can lock down. Pivot the piece from the straightedge downward until it lays on the heel and toe of the pad or butt. Visualize an "L" in which the base is not perpendicular. The angle from the perpendicular is the angle of pitch.
That way - if 10 degrees is right for you, you can make the pitch exactly the same from 26 to 34".
I shoot all 28-30" guns and do it the simple way... soooo,
5-10", 2 1/2 inches pitch, 1/4" cast at heel, 7/16 cast at toe, 14 1/2" LOP, 1 7/16 inch at comb to see a slight rib - not even a stacked bead, 16 1/2 neck, 207 pounds.
K-80 34" unsingle, 30" O/U. 14 3/8, 1" downpitch. Same on 28" skeet gun and 30" Sporting clays gun. 6'1", 220Lbs, 17 1/2" collar, 35" sleeve. Adjustable butt plates on all guns with pads dropped about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. Pad adjusted with more toe out to fit shoulder pocket better. Vari-brite beads and I do not see a figure 8 but the beads stack. No recoil!
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I avoided this thread because I hate to disagree with other shooters but now it's time to write something.
The correct pitch for a given shooter depends on several factors: where on the shoulder the gun is mounted, the stance used by the shooter, the body posture of the shooter when he or she shoots and the chest configuration of the shooter.
The pitch is correct when, as the gun is being mounted, with the barrel raised to a normal shooting height, the whole recoil pad, top to bottom, makes simultaneous contact with the shoulder.
I gave up calling pitch positive and negative following a phone discussion with Dennis DeVault. He describes what I would call "positive" pitch, negative pitch. I have forgotten his reasoning but being Dennis, I accepted that I may be mistaken in my definition of pitch.
Pitch described in inches invites another problem - the length of the barrel or the point on the barrel from which the distance to a vertical surface is measured.
Describing pitch in degrees the way the English do is the best way to describe pitch but few have the ability to accurately measure pitch in degrees, especially when the bore axis is used as the basis rather than the rib, which can slope toward the muzzle.
The only value of measuring pitch is to allow a basis for comparison so the pitch can be duplicated (or corrected) on another stock.
Too much or too little pitch can cause problems. When the toe of a recoil pad or stock protrudes too far, barrel rise will increase and the gun is more difficult to mount consistently. When the condition becomes more extreme, cheek slap occurs. Pain where the toe of the pad makes contact with the shoulder is also a distinct possibility, especially for women.
When the top "heel" of the recoil pad protrudes too far, the gun can slide up on layers of clothing during recoil and can also punish the shooter's cheek.
Pad adjusters are sometimes used to compensate for the wrong pitch. When the toe of the recoil pad sticks out too far, the whole pad can be rotated with a pad adjuster to put the toe of the pad in the armpit. Without the ability to rotate the pad it can even cause gun canting.
You may be wondering how the stance used by a shooter can affect the correct pitch. If the shooter shoots a shotgun like a rifle, with the shoulders nearly aligned with the direction of the shot, the recoil pad contacts the shoulder differently than when the shooter faces targets more directly.
With the body rotated too far, the toe of the recoil pad must protrude farther to make contact with the recess of the armpit - to spread the recoil over as large an area as possible.
On LOP comparisons: These can be of limited use. This is because the height of the gun mount and the length of the shooter's neck play a significant part in the correct LOP for shooters. The "correct" length is usually described and the distance between the tip of the shooter's nose and the thumb - 1" to 1.5".
A long neck and/or a low gun mount both require the shooter to lean his or her neck forward to put the cheek on the comb. This lean requires additional stock length because necks have length.
The stance used by the shooter also significantly affects the LOP. The farther the shooter rotates the stance, the longer the stock must be.
Even the type of shooting can affect the preferred LOP. Shooters of low gun disciplines like FITASC and hunting often prefer guns with a shorter LOP to facilitate quick gun mounts.
Rollin
The correct pitch for a given shooter depends on several factors: where on the shoulder the gun is mounted, the stance used by the shooter, the body posture of the shooter when he or she shoots and the chest configuration of the shooter.
The pitch is correct when, as the gun is being mounted, with the barrel raised to a normal shooting height, the whole recoil pad, top to bottom, makes simultaneous contact with the shoulder.
I gave up calling pitch positive and negative following a phone discussion with Dennis DeVault. He describes what I would call "positive" pitch, negative pitch. I have forgotten his reasoning but being Dennis, I accepted that I may be mistaken in my definition of pitch.
Pitch described in inches invites another problem - the length of the barrel or the point on the barrel from which the distance to a vertical surface is measured.
Describing pitch in degrees the way the English do is the best way to describe pitch but few have the ability to accurately measure pitch in degrees, especially when the bore axis is used as the basis rather than the rib, which can slope toward the muzzle.
The only value of measuring pitch is to allow a basis for comparison so the pitch can be duplicated (or corrected) on another stock.
Too much or too little pitch can cause problems. When the toe of a recoil pad or stock protrudes too far, barrel rise will increase and the gun is more difficult to mount consistently. When the condition becomes more extreme, cheek slap occurs. Pain where the toe of the pad makes contact with the shoulder is also a distinct possibility, especially for women.
When the top "heel" of the recoil pad protrudes too far, the gun can slide up on layers of clothing during recoil and can also punish the shooter's cheek.
Pad adjusters are sometimes used to compensate for the wrong pitch. When the toe of the recoil pad sticks out too far, the whole pad can be rotated with a pad adjuster to put the toe of the pad in the armpit. Without the ability to rotate the pad it can even cause gun canting.
You may be wondering how the stance used by a shooter can affect the correct pitch. If the shooter shoots a shotgun like a rifle, with the shoulders nearly aligned with the direction of the shot, the recoil pad contacts the shoulder differently than when the shooter faces targets more directly.
With the body rotated too far, the toe of the recoil pad must protrude farther to make contact with the recess of the armpit - to spread the recoil over as large an area as possible.
On LOP comparisons: These can be of limited use. This is because the height of the gun mount and the length of the shooter's neck play a significant part in the correct LOP for shooters. The "correct" length is usually described and the distance between the tip of the shooter's nose and the thumb - 1" to 1.5".
A long neck and/or a low gun mount both require the shooter to lean his or her neck forward to put the cheek on the comb. This lean requires additional stock length because necks have length.
The stance used by the shooter also significantly affects the LOP. The farther the shooter rotates the stance, the longer the stock must be.
Even the type of shooting can affect the preferred LOP. Shooters of low gun disciplines like FITASC and hunting often prefer guns with a shorter LOP to facilitate quick gun mounts.
Rollin
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