Okay,,,since only about 10 per cent of ATA members attend the Grand,,,are you goin to call it a success when the other 90% of shooters never show up??? Don't the other 90% of shooters get to speak their minds???
George Bush and his Iraq policies are only backed by 28% of Americans,,,,are you going to say we ALL support his war when the other 72% of Americans don't??? Do they have a right to complain when they don't agree???
Only about 4% of gun owners belong the NRA,,,,don't the other 96% of gun owners get to complain about an organization they don't agree with???
No,,,I never attended the Grand,,But I did live there!!! And that is why I now live in Arizona!!!!
And,,,its not so much complaining about the Grand itself,,,,But "WHERE" the Grand is!!!!
George Bushs "blowtorched" turkey looked beautiful too!!! Until you tried to eat it!!!!!
Zarathrusta I have never been to Sparta But it being in Illionis is all the reason I need to never go . I have no problem with anyone going but it is my choice to not support the state of Illinois and it,s laws . I have said before I don,t like to go to big shoots never did . I really don,t care if the grand is a success or not as it will not have an affect on my shooting registerd targets and if it dose I will shoot just targets and save alot of money .
There is a big difference between the amount of people who have shot ATA targets once and those that are SERIOUS enough shooters to attend big shoots like the Grand. But, Grammie keeps coming up with the same stupid arguments!
Among the people who actually went to the Grand, they are 95% positive about it. Among the people who didn't go, WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!
I did not go to the Grand, but I hope it is successful. Being from Ohio, it is too far away. 2 days of travel ( 1 there, 1 back ). There are other shoots closer in Mich., Ohio, and Indiana that I enjoy. I don't like Illinois gun laws, and I hope that doesn't bite the ATA later, but that commitment has been made so we shall live it. How it's managed in the next 5 years will probably determine if it's a success unless the cost of shooting continues to increase.
when you look at the average age of an ATA member, I wonder where our membership will be in 10 years?
I have been to 5 or 6 grands. I went to Sparta just to see it. I think it is A great facility. Much more room than Vandalia. Would like it to be closer but so would most of us. I never have shot at A grand. Just like to go and shop. I think the grounds will get A lot better with time. Maybe someday I will shoot there.
Won't call anyone names or say demeaning things about anyone I have not personally met and that includes you. And then only rarely will I have anything to say that is bad about anyone. Places are a different matter.
Because I don't agree with you does not mean either of us is wrong. It is my opinion why should it bother you. Your opinion does not bother me one little bit. Why should it?
So you just have a blast at Sparta until the state passes the semi-auto ban and fifty cal. ban.. They are not going to go away. And wishful thinking will not change things.
The writing is on the wall for all to read that are not completely blind.
And you should look up the word gentleman and see if it applies to you post.
Soon Devil's Advocate you will take a deep breath and cough. Soon you will find you will see more when you open your eyes. Soon you will also see how right people like myself are about Sparta and the ATA. Just answer one question to yourself. Where is all the money that the ATA has gotten from its members and other sorces? We should have alot more then we do now.
But they have a lot less after last years 3 shoots than when they started. Ask yourself how long can it continue to lose money and still exist?
The sad part is the number of shooters are down all over. And that fact alone is going to make it very difficult to just attain the numbers needed from Ohio that were lost. 2,000+ are GONE, from one state alone. Not because they don't necessarily refuse to go to Sparta, they can't afford it in time off and money.
That is the number that were LOCALS. They didn't go stay for two weeks at a time. Granted there will be some that will make it for a day maybe two. But the constant flow of commuters daily are a thing of the past.
Sparta did not affect the $150,000.00 motor coach crowd. Or the ones that went and stayed in hotels for the Grand. What it did was cut off about 30-35% of the attendance as far as shooters go.
I have heard it said by many different people the they are NOT against Sparta. Sparta is in favor of the Grand being there and are trying to make it the best ever but, Sparta is in Illinois a not so friendly gun state. This is what they are saying that it was a poor choise as to the state not the town it is in. We have nothing against the people of Sparta I wish them well. I just hope it continues to have the Grand. Time will tell.
I think the gun Laws will kill Sparta and the Grand in time i sure hope not.Yes i was there last year the tent vendors did not do well. it was hot and dusty i did not enjoy it. but i did meet some nice local people. i just might go back. Jim Burk
To all the nay sayers that want to cut and run from Illinois. I choose to stay here and fight for my gun rights. If we run from the Illinois gun laws without fighting, they just might be in your state next. I say it is the place to make a stand. The gun lobby in Springfield last week had quite a showing. The way a lot of people talk on here maybee you ought to listen to your political views and fight them in Illinois and not in your own back yard. Most of the gun owners here arent ready to cut and run like some did. Were big boys here, we will carry the burden of the fight for those that choose to cut and run.
Cost and time affects the decision to go to the grand more than anything else. When a shoot is close and convenient, more shooters will attend. I would like to know what the population base of shooters around Sparta is compared to Vandalia? What % of regular attendees were lost w/ the move? If the ATA was targeting Motorhome shooters, they have to expect to lose some shooters. Do the Motorhome shooters spend more time and money at the Grand then the percentage of "drive ins"? What is the percentage of ATA members within 2 hours of Sparta? 4 hours? What was it at Vandalia? I don't think it has much to do w/ pissing and moaning. It's about time, money, and having a good time.
Did the Selection Committee check out this data. Probably.(I hope)
KY shooter, no one really knows. If you sit daown and add things up you get a different number then they are putting out.
A drive for people who are on the east coast is now a 12 hour instead of a 7 hour drive.
The Rock, don't lower yourself like that. Your more then welcome to sit up high with me. Sparta is in a anti gun state and its to far for people to get to. Plus there is no place to stay and if you find something its going to cost you an arm and a leg. People will pay only so much.
GWII, no one here as ever said they have anything against the people of Sparta but just that Ill is an anti gun state. That was what the members of the ATA were against. I and other were not happy that the BOD and others just passed by other sites and rammed Sparta down our throats no matter what we members had to say about it.
Slugger, in Ohio the Grand was at one time out in no where. At one point someone had to have known that they had to move or be pushed out. Did they see the writting on the wall? NO. They just stayed there till it was to late. They could have moved and bought land when it was cheap and slowly started to build something else. As for the money. They should be making money hand over fist because as they have put it they don't have the HIGH OVER HEAD ANY MORE. If that is the case then why are they losing money? They should not be losing money. We will not be told the truth because as I was told by a person here on TS.com who is a delegate "ITS NONE OF MY DAMN BUISNESS". Others here have asked for a brake down of the money coming in and going out. All they do is send you a sheet with money in a lump sum going out and in but will not let you where its from or going out to. What are they hiding? We all need to start think about how things are running. We all need to look to the future before we loose everything from bad management. The past will give you only so much warning before its to late.
Zarathrusta, why should we gun owners have to hide or keep low any where we go. We are not doing anything wrong. We are doing something that is well within the laws of this counrty. But yes there are cops that will jerk you around or arrest you just for the fun of it. That is what everyone has to worry about when traveling anywhere is the bad cops. I will not hide when I'm doing nothing wrong.
Setterman, I don't think they did. I think they did what they wanted to and did not care what the members wanted. I will still say that the officals of the ATA made a killing when it came to them buying land before the price went up so high only the rich can now buy it. The BOD as I said before rammed Sparta down our throats so they did not take a bath not having the Grand there. They are now leasing the land they bought and or selling it and making big bucks. Think about it. There are to many red flags to say its not.