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so this discussion has come up a couple of times again this AM altho I,m a member of the ATA I have only shot registered shoots 3 times in the last 4 years. that being said out in front of the trap house are 3 stakes the center one is straight out in front of number 3 position the other 2 are at an angle to the left and right. when they calibrate the trap house they set the trap to reach the 2 angle stakes. o.k. must the birds when they come out of the house stay in side of thee 2 outer posts to be legal or do the hard right or lefts are they also legal. sorry if this sounds dumb but today was the second time it was brought up
 

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Well I am still in the learning stage of setting a trap, having started doing it at my home club for only two years. There are a lot of variables. ASSUMEING (I have been to a lot of club that have no idea how to set a target) the stakes are set correctly the birds should be inside the stakes. There are also distance, speed and height concerns as well. If you to the ATA rule book all the specs are laid out.
 

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I some how remember that a bunker t-gauge was placed outside the bunker door 9' up and 12' out. I can measure it in 2 weeks when I arrive mo and let everyone know. I have all the rule rods stuck in the ground.
not sure, but im told no one uses l & r markers anymore. I see very few on my tours. mine has them marked for 3 hole.
I think l&r rules went away when 2 hole took over. not sure. some don't even have center markers.
fyi, look at the trap t-gauge on my fence. basically its used like a skeet hoop.
Tree Land lot Rural area Farm Pasture
 

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Text Line Pattern Design Parallel
I some how remember that a bunker t-gauge was placed outside the bunker door 9' up and 12' out. I can measure it in 2 weeks when I arrive mo and let everyone know. I have all the rule rods stuck in the ground.
not sure, but im told no one uses l & r markers anymore. I see very few on my tours. mine has them marked for 3 hole.
I think l&r rules went away when 2 hole took over. not sure. some don't even have center markers.
fyi, look at the trap t-gauge on my fence. basically its used like a skeet hoop.
View attachment 1660443
Legal Targets can be between 8' to 10'
measured 30' from the throwing arm, also known as point B.
 

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A couple of comments with the aid of the diagram above so kindly provided by mg1polo.

As a new shooter, you will see references to a 2 hole target and a 3 hole target. In the old Winchester Western handset machines, you could set the width of the targets by placing a peg in a hole. If you put in the number 2 hole you would get about a 34 degree spread, 17° on either side of the centerline. If you put it in the 3 hole, you would get about a 45° spread, 22.5° on either side of the centerline . Nowadays it is common to set ATA targets at the 34° spread, however, it is permissible to set the targets at the 45° spread. Consequently, the target has to be outside of the 45° spread to be considered illegal. You can find references to these numbers up at the top of the fan in the diagram.

I installed 3 eighths inch rebar stakes at our club several years ago much like you have described in your original post. A 1/2 inch, 10 foot electrical conduit slides down on top of the rebar stakes. The stakes are set in concrete with the top of the concrete level with the surface of the shooting sidewalks. By sliding an electrical conduit on the center stake, it is easy to set the height of the target within the specifications without requiring someone to stand and hold a hoop.

To center the field, meaning to set the trap machine so that it throws equal angles to either side or doubles square to Post 3, conduits can be slipped over the 2, 17°angle stakes. It is then easy to visually ascertain if the field is set square.

We have G series Pat traps at our club and the width of the targets are governed by a 4 and 1/4 inch bar, or 34, 1 eighth inch increments, set between the 2 angle limit switches. Each 1 eighth inch of this bar represents one degree of 34 degree spread. While the angle switches can be locked in place with an Allen wrench, we have found it preferable to also tie the bar in place with a zip tie in case an angle switch works loose.

The most important thing to remember in shooting trap is that all dimensions are somewhat "about". Because of wind and changing temperatures and mechanical mechanisms the targets are going to come out about where they have been set. As such, as a new shooter, don't clutter your mind with worries about the fine points of how the targets are set, just bear down and shoot them where they are.
 

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Back to what you asked....IF the side stakes are set for 34deg angle, as MOST clubs do, then NO they don't have to fall inside the markers.
As stated ..it's all in the rule book.
And as stated...Just shoot what you see and don't get balled up in "what if's" Trust me, if there is a problem some genius will point it out.
Shoot Have Fun WELCOME!!!
My Best
Jp
 

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Back to what you asked....IF the side stakes are set for 34deg angle, as MOST clubs do, then NO they don't have to fall inside the markers.
As stated ..it's all in the rule book.
And as stated...Just shoot what you see and don't get balled up in "what if's" Trust me, if there is a problem some genius will point it out.
Shoot Have Fun WELCOME!!!
My Best
Jp
The target does NOT have to land inside of the L or R boundary markers to be legal. They must start off at or inside, but wind drift can make a perfectly legal target fall outside the boundaries, if you don't shoot at it, it's lost.
MG
 

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Nowadays it is common to set ATA targets at the 34° spread, however, it is permissible to set the targets at the 45° spread. Consequently, the target has to be outside of the 45° spread to be considered illegal. You can find references to these numbers up at the top of the fan in the diagram.
Since most clubs never have the outside stakes, its impossible for the average Joe to know if a target is out of bounds while shooting!!! Unless of course its a extreme case.

They must start off at or inside, but wind drift can make a perfectly legal target fall outside the boundaries, if you don't shoot at it, it's lost.
This is not a True Statement. One, I've never seen this rule called on a field during a shoot. Especially since all the trappers are just teenagers, and are all untrained to boot. All you have to do is tell the puller you flinched, and you have FTF #1. No lost Target for a Balk, in Trap for any reason. This is why I am against the FTF rule in Trap. It is abused to the extreme!!! break em all Jeff
 

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Since most clubs never have the outside stakes, its impossible for the average Joe to know if a target is out of bounds while shooting!!! Unless of course its a extreme case.



This is not a True Statement. One, I've never seen this rule called on a field during a shoot. Especially since all the trappers are just teenagers, and are all untrained to boot. All you have to do is tell the puller you flinched, and you have FTF #1. No lost Target for a Balk, in Trap for any reason. This is why I am against the FTF rule in Trap. It is abused to the extreme!!! break em all Jeff
Jeff,
That is EXACTLY what the rule on a legal target is! NONE of that other crap you have dribbled has anything to do with a legal target! The OP asked, "must the birds when they come out of the house stay in side of thee 2 outerposts to be legal"
THE ANSWER IS NO!
MG
 

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W
Why would you need to know this? I shot at every target that came out of the house when I first started shooting trap. It will take you years of Trap shooting to know instantly when a target is Illegal before you can pull the trigger on the target. So, stop thinking and just shoot the dang target. break em all Jeff
Well scuse him for asking!!!!
 

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This is not a True Statement. One, I've never seen this rule called on a field during a shoot. Especially since all the trappers are just teenagers, and are all untrained to boot. All you have to do is tell the puller you flinched, and you have FTF #1. No lost Target for a Balk, in Trap for any reason. This is why I am against the FTF rule in Trap. It is abused to the extreme!!! break em all Jeff
I HAVE seen it called. Once during a normal shoot and twice during shoot offs and I don't know who you're shooting with but I haven't seen the ftf rule extremely abused. If someone on a squad I was shooting with tried to abuse it I'd call them out pretty quick and if it didn't stop get shoot management involved.
 

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The ATA just did a study on the percentage of Fail to Fire birds. According to my sources it came out to around 1/2 of 1% at last year's Grand.
JEB
That would be 2.5 average per squad of 5 (500 targets). Seems like a whole lot to me.
I'm just guessing here, but that means if 3,000,000 targets were thrown they had 15,000 FTF?
 

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so this discussion has come up a couple of times again this AM altho I,m a member of the ATA I have only shot registered shoots 3 times in the last 4 years. that being said out in front of the trap house are 3 stakes the center one is straight out in front of number 3 position the other 2 are at an angle to the left and right. when they calibrate the trap house they set the trap to reach the 2 angle stakes. o.k. must the birds when they come out of the house stay in side of thee 2 outer posts to be legal or do the hard right or lefts are they also legal. sorry if this sounds dumb but today was the second time it was brought up
You're allowed to read the rule book.
 

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Personaly I have never seen 1.5 to 2% of targets thrown to be failure to fire occourances. That seems TERRIBLY high. If there are truly that many at the Grand, something needs to be done. Just what, I don't know.
I have never seen a bird called lost (outside the stakes) unless it is a third failure to fire in one sub event, or shot at and missed. I have a friend that did abuse the ftf rule (in doubles) when he started shooting. He said, You get two per round and took them just because he didn't want to shoot. After we gave him grief for a while, we had the delegate have a little "chit chat" with him and that all stopped!
Jp
 
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