Trapshooters Forum banner

1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,980 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello:
I ran into a friend of mine at a local George Web restaurant here in Milwaukee. He was tickled pink over a used model 12 that he recently purchased from a private owner.

He had the gun in the trunk of his car and requested that I take a look at it. The gun had gorgeous factory wood on it, and it also had the original bluing as the gun was supposedly a safe queen. It had something on the pistol grip that I never saw before as it was a "W" in red and black.

My friend said the previous owner told him that the grip cap was placed on model 12's during a certain time frame of production. He took the gun completely out of the case and laid in in his trunk and I noticed the barrel had been ported.

I told him it was a beautiful gun, but in my opinion the porting would devalue the gun, especially a model 12. He said I was FOS and that alteration would only add to it's value.

My question is, does porting devalue a trap gun? What other alterations devalue a gun or possibly add value? I have always believed the most value to gun are no alterations at all. I can see some value to porting on an over and under, but not on a single barrel, especially a model 12.

What's your opinion?
Steve Balistreri
Wauwatosa Wisconsin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,683 Posts
Steve,

There are all sorts of things that people do to Winchester Model 12's. In my opinion, most devalue the gun. I would certainly say that porting and the addition of choke tubes would devalue a Mod. 12.

I have seen really nice work by Simmons where they take a field Mod 12 and restore it with a new rib, bluing and polishing. Most of these Mod 12's will bring a higher price than the original field mod 12. This may not apply to one of the more rare Mod 12 such as a trap model.

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,464 Posts
IMHO only to a "collector".

I know a guy who has a pretty good supply of Model 12's plus other numerous shotguns.

He ports them himself, changes wood, re-blues and puts other types of coats them, etc etc.

They "function" just fine.

But then I don't "collect", I buy to shoot them and if I don't, they go bye bye.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
For my money, if the gun is ported and/or has removable chokes, either one is enough for me to walk away with my money in my pocket. The majority of the people with whom I shoot have changeable-choked guns and they are constantly fiddling with them on the firing line. They hand-tighten them after every shot just to make sure that they haven't loosened in one discharge. This, to me, would be very disturbing to my concentration between shots if I had to do it, and I try to ignore them doing it, too. Porting, for me, directs part of the muzzle blast out to my left front rather than away from my face and I don't care for it. Everyone has their own opinion about these items, and mine may vary from yours. It doesn't make either one of us right or wrong, just different.

Jack
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,156 Posts
For me, porting would kill the deal, period. Tried it once; never again. So would cutting down the stock to put one of those ridiculous recoil absorbing devices. So would any barrel or choke work done by someone I have no confidence in. So would rebluing if done by someone who did not know how to correctly polish metal before bluing. There may be others, but those are the biggies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,599 Posts
Steve...The one thing that will stop me from even looking at a gun is any sort of add on recoil system such as the Gracoil, Bumpbuster, Rad, PFS, and the like. If it has a soft touch, or Clyde Slyde, I will look at it. Screw in chokes, add-a-ribs, etc. are also a turn off for me. Also, if the barrel has been worked on by anyone other than Wilkinson, Eyster, Allor, or Seitz, I will walk away.... Just my feelings... Dan Thome (Trap2)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,022 Posts
The following devalue a shotgun (for me)
Porting,
Refinishing,
Recoil Devices,
Rib Mod's,
Barrel Mod's including choke tube installation,
SS # engraved,
Installed grip caps(except $20 gold pc's,
Any wood modification.

Your correct Steve...no mods are the best mods!!!!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,262 Posts
I'm with you Dan, and you can add porting, I don't care who did it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
As I get older I have stopped buying "collectables". I purchase a gun for fit & function as I am going to USE IT. Alterations to that end are valuable to me. However .... I definitly agree that any porting does suck!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,682 Posts
Some guns such as a plain Jane bt99 will go up some in value with quality add ons.

I was disappointed to find that my new bt99 ar could not be purchased without porting.

A "collectable" should never be permanently molested IMHO.

Bill
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,631 Posts
ANY modification affects the sale price, usually DOWN, unless it's a perfect match for what that 1 single buyer is looking for. Ross Puls
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,002 Posts
I like shooters. Have had my share of porting & screw in chokes from several different actions and manufactures
Settled on no port or screw in chokes. Less to worry about and quicker yo clean and maintain.

Cheers Dusty
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,060 Posts
There are a jillion model 12's floating around and very few are truly collectibles; but that aside, modifications are a plus for some people and they are willing to pay or at least see them as added having value. For others any modifications are a distraction and are happy to tell you, you ruind the gun.

Some people want a bone stock model A sedan while others want a chopped top and big motor, who's the sinner????

Surfer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
I know that changing certain items affects the potential resale, but I have put gracoils and rads on my stocks. I would rather have a "molested" shotgun that i can shoot comfortably every day, than have an ortho molest my bad shoulder and not be able to guarantee that the surgery will be 100 % successful, so that I can shoot a "purists' " shotgun. How about taking a 10K + combo and having a custom stock made for it, that only fits the buyer, how does that affect resale? I like looking at them and admire the craftsmans' talent and work, but doubt the same gun would fit me and hence be worth the sale price.


JMO
Rich Kaplan- chemist
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
I have bought or sold about a dozen relatively mid-higher to higher end trap guns over the past 7 years that I've been trap shooting. While I'm not an expert I can tell you of two for sure reasons that would prevent me from buying a gun, even at a discount price. 1) is porting. For every report/claim that explains the benefit of porting, there are ten reports/claims that it's a waste of money not to mention the devaluation of the gun. 2)I just ran into this one recently while I was searching for a replacement trap combo. I found a CG Challenger that was in pristine shape except for one thing. The gun was for a woman and the stock was cut off to the middle of the comb back curve, LOP about 13 inches. This was a deal breaker as far as I was concerned and to my knowledge that gun is still for sale some 4 months later. Of course removable chokes are a must for me also. IMO

blade819
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
965 Posts
An unaltered factory 'new or as new' is top value.. Having said that a otherwise 'as new or new' that has been altered with outstanding wood should raise the value.

To me porting decreases, re-bluing decreases, stock trimming decreases and choke tubes are neutral to negative.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,980 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
How many times I've seen a shooter attempting to sell a gun and he list all the alterations that he has paid for on his gun. I learned a long time ago especially if you are attempting to sell to a gun shop that you will never get your money out of it.

Sure the gun shop owner will list all the alterations once he owns the gun in attempt to sell it, but that is just a salesman attempting to make a profit to stay in business.

I strongly believe that model 12's is the one gun that originality is especially important to most people when looking to purchase.
Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,986 Posts
Nice fishing trip...got all the anti-porters out of the water again.......worse than longshot going on and on about 3 hole target sheeesh.Jerry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
995 Posts
As previously stated, if the gun is marketed as a collector piece, then virtually anything done after it left the factory will hurt the value. But if it is sold as a shooter, then mod's. may, or may not, boost value.
I deal a lot in Lugers, and if one has been re-finished, mod'ed or messed with in any way the value drops by about 50%.
dju
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top