[DocWong]

Hi,

I'm just beginning to reload....actually looking for my first progressive shotgun press, but what's the difference between cheaper hulls, like the inexpensive Federal loads I'm shooting and so Winchester AA Hulls?

Do they just last longer or does it somehow alter the shooting characteristics of the shot?

 

[Hatchet Shadow]

CHEAPER SHELLS THIN WALLS AND 3 PIECE CONSTRUCTION( TUBE ...SEPARATE BASE INSERT...AND METAL BASE . .INSPECT THE BASE INSERT TO MAKE SURE IT HAS NOR MOVED FORWARD. IF MOVES FORWARD PRIMER PRESSURE CAN MOVE THE BASE AND IT WINDS UP IN BARREL. ..ONLY RELOAD A FEW TIMES...NEW AA BETTER CONSTRUCTION RELOAD MORE TIMES. ..OLD AA TYPE AND REM GUN CLUBS..COMPRESSION FORMED..2 PIECE.. (SINGLE PIECE HULL AND THE METAL BÀSE. RELOAD UP TO 5 TO 10 TIMES...ALSO IF YOU PICK UP HULLS AT RANGE ...INVEST IN RESIZER...MY LOADER A MEC DOES IT WHEN I DEPRIME..PREVENTS TIGHT FITTING SHELLS......GOOD LUCK...BEST HOBBY I EVER GOT INTO.....

 

[smokintom]

If you're just now getting into reloading you should look into a MEC Sizemaster to get you started. As for hulls I would strongly suggest remington STS or Nitro to start with. Great hulls and a great loader to begin with and a very easy loader to start with. Just my 2 cents

 

[timb99]

Hi,

I'm just beginning to reload....actually looking for my first progressive shotgun press, but what's the difference between cheaper hulls, like the inexpensive Federal loads I'm shooting and so Winchester AA Hulls?

Do they just last longer or does it somehow alter the shooting characteristics of the shot?

Hi Doc,

Mostly, they are thin walled, have steel bases (not brass), and they don't crimp as well or last as long. One or two reloads and toss. (You can get 10 or 12 reloads out of the better hulls.)

Some of the cheap ones have fiber basewads, which in and of itself is not a big deal, but they don't last as long as plastic.

There isn't as much reloading data available for them.

A lot of this info is discussed in the Lyman Reloading manual I recommended.

 

[Hatchet Shadow]

The MEC loader I have is the Sizemaster..new to reloading...just loaded the 200th box last night..very easy to set up ...operate and matain. ...I agree the STS and Nitro are the best choice. I load the Rem Gun clubs...easy to come across...have a few shooters that do not reload save them for me..

 

[brent375hh]

You will be way ahead of the game by only loading AA, or Remington STS, Nitro, or Gun Club. At least to start.

The above are all a tapered hull that require the correct wad. The best way to select that wad is by looking at the data from powder companies. Alliant and Hodgdon are two good places to look.

 

[My3johns]

Stay with the STS hulls or the Winchester AA hulls with the brass cap they seem to wear last and re-load better than anything else I would stay away from the gun clubs too

 

[Nebs]

Hulls 101:

There are two broad categories of hulls: straight walled and tapered walled and the difference is crucial when it comes to choosing wads. The inside diameters of the straight walled hulls are a bit larger than the tapered walled hulls and this difference carries over to the outside diameters of the powder cup on the wads. Use wads for straight walled hulls in straight walled hulls and …...

• Straight walled hulls, generally, are anything made by Federal or a European company (be careful because some US branded hulls might have been made in Europe).
• Tapered walled hulls are any target hull made by Remington (STS/Nitro/Gun Club/Clay and Field) and the Win AA.
• Within the Win AA, there are two types, the AACF (quit making them ~15 years ago but lots of them still around and one of the best hulls ever for reloading) and the newer style AAHS (reloading data from Alliant and Hodgdon says their data will work for both but they really don't, other threads on this).
• Many times, the data will give you a load that will fit in the AACF but will be too tall for the AAHS, but this can be cured with a simple wad change.
• Not all straight walled hulls have the same height to the internal base wad. Some will be higher than others and this effects wad choice.

Another data point is primers. From this standpoint, there are two broad categories of hulls: US made and European made and this makes a difference in primer selection. The US made primers are a bit smaller in diameter than their European cousins. If you try to use the bigger Euro primers in a US made hull, you will expand the primer pocket such that if you subsequently try to load using a US made primer, the primer will fall out (don't ask me how I know this). I also suspect the same thing might happen if you go to use a US made primer in a Euro hull. Anyway, once you use a Euro primer in a US made hull, you can't go back to a US primer.

 

[Claypoppy]

You will be way ahead of the game by only loading AA, or Remington STS, Nitro, or Gun Club. At least to start.

Me too!

Been loading for 50 years and have tried many different hulls during that time.

Years ago, I settled on the 3 listed above. IMO, they are the best, and I can use the same components in all 3.

Federals require different wads, and I like the K.I.S.S. principle, so I don't load them.

p.s. When Nebs give advise about loading, pay attention, He knows his stuff.

Good Luck and Good Shooting!

 

[Nebs]

Another difference between straight walled and tapered walled hull is the straight walled hulls typically require a heavier powder charge to get performance similar to a tapered walled hull. Thus, tapered walled hulls are a bit more economical to reload.

 

[Tripod]

The MEC loader I have is the Sizemaster..new to reloading...just loaded the 200th box last night..very easy to set up ...operate and matain. ...I agree the STS and Nitro are the best choice. I load the Rem Gun clubs...easy to come across...have a few shooters that do not reload save them for me..

ln my experience, the Gun Clubs are far more durable than STS or Nitro hulls. They all make nice reloads. I am fortunate to have a garbage can full of old once fired CF AA Winchesters as well as a good supply of STS and Nitro. The downside to having what effectively is a life time supply, is l am old

 

[Hatchet Shadow]

Nebs....great information..look forward to reading more of your post in the future....
One of my mentors has settled in on the new Remington Field and Clay round to reload...Light Green hull ....words it's the repacment for STS..not sure if true or not...well constructed, single piece hull only negative Brass washed steel base compared to STS brass base...but that is the standard and future trend comming I guess..
The new Remington will be my new standard on newer type shells when Gun Clubs go away( big if I hope ) and the shooter that save me hulls switch over...

 

[DocWong]

Wow, thanks for all the info!

Looks like I'm going to have to do some studying to make sure I'm choosing the correct primers, hulls and wads. Thanks Tmb99, I've got the Lyman manual coming and will study that.

So where to get hulls? I'm going to start by getting the discarded better hulls from my gun club. I empty the garbage cans as a usual duty there anyway. If I can't get enough, are they typically sold second hand?

 

[dws]

So where to get hulls? I'm going to start by getting the discarded better hulls from my gun club. I empty the garbage cans as a usual duty there anyway. If I can't get enough, are they typically sold second hand?

You can find once fired hulls on line usually about 4 cents each then factor in shipping.

Another option, buy new quality shells and save the empties. If you have a local Walmart they often have STS's and AA's for about $6 or $7 a box.. start with those and of course save the empties.

 

[Pat Dugan]

At our club, not many reload as 12 ga shells from different vendors are about 5 dollars a box. Winchester AA s are plentiful if you want them, but
My experience is the crimp is not as pretty as the Remington
Gold STS or the Green ones. The STS Remington resizes
easily and looks the best , so its my favorite. Its a shame but the Winchester AA are mostly trashed

 

[DocWong]

Just had time to shoot 100 rounds today at the club, and picked up a few dozen AA hulls. I'll just do that for now when I shoot as I've still got 15 flats of the cheap Remington and Federal loads.

I got some Remington STSs also. Is it correct to assume that I can use the same primers, wads, powder and shot in either STSs, AA and Nitro and Gun Club? Does it make sense to just load and shoot a mix of the better quality hulls?

 

[Nebs]

Is it correct to assume that I can use the same primers, wads, powder and shot in either STSs, AA and Nitro and Gun Club? Does it make sense to just load and shoot a mix of the better quality hulls?

The answer to both questions is it depends on the powder. If you use a powder that is dense enough to allow the use of a "standard" wad in the AAHS, then the answer to both questions is "yes." But, I suspect using a powder that dense might lead to some dishing of the crimps in the Rem hulls. If you use a bulky powder, such as Clays, Red Dot, Promo (you can judge relative density by looking at the bushing charts, powders that need a large bushing for a given amount of powder are bulkier than those that need a smaller bushing for the same amount of powder), you will need a wad with a shorter crush section for the AAHS hulls. The recommended wad in that case is the DRA 12 wad from Downrange.

A "standard" wad is a wad that was not designed specially for use in the AAHS hull and, so far as I know, the only wad that meets this description is the DRA 12 wad.

In either case, you likely will not be able to commingle the two types of hulls while loading. You likely will need to make a loader adjustment at both the pre-crimp and final crimp dies when going from one to the other.

The AAHS is a great hull but the data from both Alliant and Hodgdon were developed using the AACF hull and while they say the data can be used for both types of hull, in many cases, the stack of the components is too tall for the amount of space in the hull and it could lead to buckling of the sides of the hull and/or a FUBAR crimp. When you see a load in the data that calls for am bulky powder and you are using the HS hull, there are 2 ways to cure the stack height problem. The first way is the use the DRA12 wad. The 2nd way is to use a wad of the same type (AA-type or Figure 8-type) but designed to hold 1/8 oz more shot than you are dropping. Such a wad will have a bit shorter crush section, allowing for a proper stack height. None of this matters is you use the same powders Win puts in the factory loads, WSH or WST. Both are very dense and the components called for the data give an appropriate stack height.

 

[Nebs]

Just had time to shoot 100 rounds today at the club, and picked up a few dozen AA hulls.

I got some Remington STSs also.

Congrats, it appears you have taken the first step towards becoming a "hull-aholic." It's real easy to spot someone with this addiction on the sporting clays field. When they step up to the station, instead of looking up to see where the targets will be coming from, they look down to see whether there are any good hulls on the ground. Don't ask me how I know this. It's a dead give-away. It's really hard to cure.

 

[DocWong]

I think I’ve been infected, but I’m not admitting it yet.

This condition can only be treated with more hulls, shot, powder, wads and a good press. What’s a good machine for tumbling the hulls? We want them looking like new right? ;-}

 

[Nebs]

I think I’ve been infected, but I’m not admitting it yet.

This condition can only be treated with more hulls, shot, powder, wads and a good press. What’s a good machine for tumbling the hulls? We want them looking like new right? ;-}

Don't even think about doing this. It would be a waste of time. No one does it and there is no need to do it. Unless you are loading all brass hulls and you want them to look shiny.