There is a wad in between the red and the AA regular wad, I think. I don't remember what it was called. However, it would be better just to use any brand of low volume wad that will work rather than try to find obsolete wads. The red wads are really small, requiring extra card wads to fill a AA shell when loading with 1 1/4 ounces. I used RP12 wads for my last pigeon loads with 1 1/4 ounces of shot and used a .070 20 gauge card in the shot cup to fill the shell. I used STS or CF AA empties. If either of these loads had been 1 3/8 or 1 1/2 ounces, the shells would have been full with no extra wads. I think the other Winchester wad was called the W114, although it may have been the same as the red wad. The AA white wad is way too big for 1 3/8 ounces of shot.