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Discussion Starter #1
Use of semi auto

Hello:
I am the first to admit that I have not shot a lot of trap doubles in ATA competition. Two reasons being, raising children, having to spend all day at the gun club was one reason, the other was the looks and comments given when using a semi auto for this same event.

What prompts me to write this thread are the comments made to me yesterday at one of our local clubs. A few of us were talking and the subject came up about shooting doubles in competition. One of the shooters is a former State doubles champion from Wisconsin. He and others made it very clear that if someone with a semi auto wanted to shoot doubles, it would not be on their squad.

Their major objection is having to dodge shells from bouncing off their body, and their expensive guns. I mentioned that most semi autos that I have used have the protrusion in the barrel to knock the shells down, instead of to the side where the shell could possibly hit them or their guns.

They mentioned that not all shooters have this feature in their barrel, and even if they do have it, the shells can still hit them or their guns, causing a distraction to them, or causing damage to their guns. The former state champion said it should be in the rules that semi autos are not allowed as they disturb the harmony of a shoot.

If you shoot doubles in competition, how do you feel about shooting with shooters with semi auto's? Should semi auto's be allowed, and the rules changed to say you need an o/u only?

Steve Balistreri
 

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The 1st mark I ever had on my original trap gun, a BT99, was from an 1100 with no shell catcher on it shooting 16s. I was sick! They can be even worse than that in doubles. Should they be banned, NO. Should they be made to do something to prevent this sort of incident - YES! With the price of guns, why would anyone want to have someone standing next to them spitting empties in their direction? I have had people on doubles squads with semis & I always watch to see where the shells are landing before I can get comfortable shooting with them. Some are fine & present no issue at all. Others are not & sometimes the owners don't even seem to care. The other issue is a tendancy for jams & making it a tough experience for the others on the squad.

I believe that it is within the right of shooters to ask shoot management to move you or the semi shooter if the shells are cauising an issue (disrupting the harmony). This should be done in a respectful manner, not as a screaming contest. I know some shooters can't afford OU guns but still wish to compete. I would be the last one to take this away from them. All I would ask is for shoot management to help make for a win-win by requading either the person complaining or the semi shooter.

Probably will start a mini-war with this, but it is how I feel.
 

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Tell the snob to mind his own business. Their is no reason in the world that a semi auto cannot be used for trap doubles. The game has been shot with pump guns also. Same goes for skeet. Tell the pompus gentleman not to squad to the right of you. No worries, enjoy your doubles game.
 

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I think anyone that shoots an auto for doubles should squad together, or at least inform his squadmates prior to shooting so they can resquad if they wish. If you are a serious doubles shooter, you don't want any distractions. Empties hitting you back, feet, and possibly your gun,cause distractions. Usually in practice, it's no big deal.

However,If I pay big bucks to shoot and play the options, I don't want to fight distractions.

Respect other shooters and their equipment. Throw an empty. The brass always hits first. It will dent wood.
 

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The first dent in my K80 after 6 years came from a Guy shooting an auto to my left. I would agree that there needs to be some control of the use of autos in competition and they should be prepared to pay for any damage they cause.
 

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The last thing in the world we need is to exclude shooters from doubles. There's too few doubles shooters as it is. We're lucky to get one full squad
at our shoots.
 

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Yeah, we had a guy at our club get his spine shattered by a hull from one of those dang 1100s. Dented his new Holland & Holland too.

I'm also distracted by that clunky clacky sound of 870s shuckin'. These days we just run off anybody shooting a Remington. They're a safety hazard. Especially if the owner shoots better than us.

-Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I am left handed, if I use a left handed 1100 the shell goes to my left. I have also used right handed 1100's and the shells goes to the right. I heard and felt the animosity of when I and other semi auto users in doubles walked to the line to shoot.

This is the major reason I had gone out to purchase an o/u. Now, not everyone can afford to purchase an o/u for doubles. Before I purchased the o/u I started asking doubles shooters if I could squad with them, and most said in a nice way, not if my shells would hit them or their guns, and I can understand that. I think Dave S. idea of placing an "A" after the shooter's name when signing up might help in this matter.

I wonder what shooters said to Leo Harrison when he shoot doubles when he was shooting an 1100? I wonder if Leo shot an O/U for doubles? Anyone know if he used the 1100 for doubles or switched to an o/u?
Steve
 

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Good morning Steve Balisteri -
There is no reason that a semi automatic shot guns can't be used for doubles. Consideration for your fellow shooters is an obvious consideration - you don't want to "DISTRACT" the shooter on your right (if you are a right handed shooter) by ejecting hot shells on him. Both Remington (Model 1100) and Beretta make excellent semi automatics. They are both quick moving and have low recoil (preventing "muzzle bounce") on the first shot.

Check your ATA Rule Book and you will have the answer to your question. On page #18 item number 15 (Section I. Safety) "All guns used by contestants must be equipped, fitted and utilized so as not to eject empty shells in a manner that substantially disturbs or interferes with other contestants." This means you should install a "shell deflector". At the Grand in Vandalia a bunch of years back I was getting beaten up by an 1100 on my right in a doubles event and suggested to the shooter that he move to his LEFT (and I moved to my RIGHT) which opened a 2 foot space for his shells to fly and not hit me. Check out Page 32 item number #10 - "The contestant must stand with at least one foot on an imaginary line drawn through the center of the trap and continuing through the center of the post, or have one foot on each side of the line.

Problem Solved -

Bruce Maxwell
 

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I also do not want to shoot with a squad that has any semi auto shotgun. They alwaws seem to be breaking down. There second shell hangs up or something will not work.
 

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Where do you have a deflectory installed or I should say, who installs deflectors? I have a 1100 and a 391 that I play with sometimes but shoot an o/u in competition. I don't think that my hulls would be a distraction to the other shooters. They are too busy laughing at my scores to notice a ding on a $10,000 gun
 

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Well all I can say is I shoot with a squad of Remington shooters, and I get it from both ways, I have burn scars on my left cheek, the high one, scars above my rt eye, had part of my nose torn off, a broken left forearm, and numerousness foot injuries. get a life you sound like a bunch of golfers, Hooooo the wind blew my hair into my eyes when I shot , that target doesn't count, some ones talking to loud behind me, who cut gas on station 4, I can't breathe, wait the Sun just went behind a cloud, I can't shoot in the Dark. Bah,Bah, Bah!!!!!! No wonder your numbers of participation is dropping in your sport.
 

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I have used self-loaders--pumps-- (still use a pump)-- & over & behinds, while I don't shoot many doubles I have never had anybody complain or refuse to shoot with me, if they just take a step back when I'm shucking then ahead while the trap is resetting itself things seem to go OK. That being said I would & do NOT like to be pelted from 2 posts away either, & I have seen some artillery that will throw empties 15 ft. Those guns do need some special "training". I personally do not like shooting next to ported guns either but when that happens I just step back & turn my back to that gun. it still takes the trap 2&1\2 TO 3 seconds to cycle & reset itself, by then I've stepped ahead & am ready, even if that takes an extra second or two-- well I'm not there to run a race I'm there to enjoy my FRIENDS & shoot.(the breeze & my gun) Maybe I'm in the minority.-- Ross Puls
 

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<i>"Why shoot a gun that puts you at a disadvantage choke-wise? "</i>

ROTFLMAO. It just cracks me up that whenever someone asks what choke to use for singles, the hot stove league here noisily pontificates that they should "choke for smoke" and use full. But for doubles they then say a more open choke is needed for the first shot, even though it is shot at the same distance as singles. Sporting clays has much more distance between some targets, yet there are plenty of semi-auto shooters who don't feel one choke is an issue.

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As for the semi-auto issue... get a knowledgeable gunsmith to install a deflector pin in your gun. Remington trap barrels have a shell knockdown stud. These studs are readily available from Remington and can be installed on any Rem 1100/1187 12ga barrel. Properly set they'll drop the shells down near your feet. Even though some snobs go overboard about semi-autos flinging shells, a courteous semi-auto user will take steps to prevent shell flinging.

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My son's 1100 LT-20 20ga that he started with was a nasty shell flinger. I had him squad to my left, so the shells would bounce off of me, instead of others. The design of the LT20 precluded installing a shell catcher for singles.
 

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I was once shooting singles and had a guy with a semi-auto standing at my left. Everytime he shot, I was dodging empty hulls. Rather than get too distracted, I would step back about yard and let his hull fly by and then step forward to shoot.

I used to shoot a Browning B-2000 for trap in the early 80's. I bought a shell catcher mainly so I did not have to chase down the empty hulls to reload them.

In any event, I feel it is my responsibility to show respect to those I shoot with and minimize distractions. Having said that I pay the money to shoot and have no problem using my game plan to break the most targets, but I don't intend to distract someone else to win.
 

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They should be allowed, but must be altered so that the ejected case is thrown to ground within 2 ft. of the shooter.


Ron Ireland
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Bruce Maxwell:
The shooter who complained the most about people shooting semi autos in doubles competition also mentioned the rule as you just pointed out. His own interpretation of that rule was that the rule meant auto loaders should not be used because it disturbs other shooters, causing disharmony of the shoot.
Steve
 
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