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I am working with a high school clay sports team. The governing entity oversees the tournaments and require skeet, trap and sporting clays. The issues I see the most are with trap, especially if the shooter has just finished skeet. I have narrowed this down to the ability to decide where the lead actually is. I am an NRA trained instructor and have worked with young adults at this for a while, but find myself at a loss for terms that describe what is now natural to me. It is like describing how to ride a bike after you have been doing it for a while. I have been trying to describe it as a left or right decision as to where to figure the lead, but I am not sure I am getting my point across with this. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to get on the same page as a teenager, at least as far as trap shooting goes? Skill level of these kids is across the spectrum.
Johnn1
 

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Not sure if my thread was confused with another, but I don't see where I stated or implied that a sporting gun is a weapon, but instead was asking about how to describe where someone is missing a target in trap. Not figuring a lead is a relevant comment towards an answer and appreciated. The approach we take is to ask the shooter to tell the coach where a bird was missed. This is not just to avoid constant "negative" feedback that can affect the shooter, but to try and make them aware of why they missed by keeping them more focused. I think we are on the same page about leads, and the problem is with how to describe it or have the impression of the shooter's miss described back to me. In skeet, the most likely comment from them would be "behind the target", but trap is a more multi-dimensional game with perception issues that are not as simple as in skeet. For instance, is a shooter is at station 2 in trap and the target comes out almost perpendicular to the house, they see it mostly as a tailing shot and shoot accordingly. I have tried to describe it in left and right terms, in this example, most misses are to the right side of the target. This problem may be harder to describe than I anticipated, but it does seem that the issue lies in what is called a lead in other disciplines or shots. Is this making any sense? Hoping to find a starting point to solving this. As a result of not learning Spanish, I once ordered a bowl of bung hole soup in an authentic Mexican restaurant. Communication can be a big issue with people of any age.
 

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You need Leo Harrison's instructional video. You can see a short clip on Youtube. He worked with many youth shooters and was known for keeping things simple but effective.
You can PM me or email
[email protected]
 

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Not sure if my thread was confused with another, but I don't see where I stated or implied that a sporting gun is a weapon, but instead was asking about how to describe where someone is missing a target in trap. Not figuring a lead is a relevant comment towards an answer and appreciated. The approach we take is to ask the shooter to tell the coach where a bird was missed. This is not just to avoid constant "negative" feedback that can affect the shooter, but to try and make them aware of why they missed by keeping them more focused. I think we are on the same page about leads, and the problem is with how to describe it or have the impression of the shooter's miss described back to me. In skeet, the most likely comment from them would be "behind the target", but trap is a more multi-dimensional game with perception issues that are not as simple as in skeet. For instance, is a shooter is at station 2 in trap and the target comes out almost perpendicular to the house, they see it mostly as a tailing shot and shoot accordingly. I have tried to describe it in left and right terms, in this example, most misses are to the right side of the target. This problem may be harder to describe than I anticipated, but it does seem that the issue lies in what is called a lead in other disciplines or shots. Is this making any sense? Hoping to find a starting point to solving this. As a result of not learning Spanish, I once ordered a bowl of bung hole soup in an authentic Mexican restaurant. Communication can be a big issue with people of any age.
 

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Two inportant concepts.
Keep the gun moving.
Shoot where the target is going to be.
These are more subtle movements in trap, but still important.
 

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Hitting a moving target with a shotgun requires leading the target. doesn't matter if the target is a trap target or a skeet target. The only difference is the amount of perceived lead...the amount of actual lead is the same. Start by exploring how to hit Station 7 low house and extrapolate that to the various angles experienced in trap.
Maybe some time drawing this all out on a blackboard (okay; whiteboard) would be beneficial to both you and your students.
 

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Almost all shooters start out “tracking or Bead watching. What we have to do is convince them to shoot on faith. See the target not the gun but like op says they need to know the “lead” or at least where they should be breaking target. Left side right side etc.
to do this they not only need to see the break this way they NEED to know that spot.
Best way imo to do this is to use terry Jordon’s chart and combine that with soft focus lessons then onto seeing side of target to break. But all this is a waste until they have gun fit and a consistent gun fit.
 

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I think leads vary from person to person plus each sport has different target presentations. Do you swing the gun slow or fast, sustained lead or follow thru & etc.
I do understand what he is saying though. Plus my 2 foot may be different than anothers idea of what 2 foot is or looks like.
 

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I just finished with 25 brand new shooters last night. I mean brand NEW, never shot trap before.
I use the analogy of a clock, and no, not a digital one. Station 2,3, and 4 are easy. Focus on the "target" and pull the trigger when the barrel gets to 4:30, 6:00 and 7:30.
Pull the trigger as soon as the barrel touches/reaches the target
Stations 1 and 5 i use wide of 3:00 and 9:00 for the hard left and rights. Middle targets are more of the same 4:30 or 7:30.
This approach does not create smoke balls, but it will them close enough to break targets.
When they shoot over a target I tell them they are up past 11:00, 12:00 or 1:00.
I also instruct them to shoot the target the first time they pass it. Don't swing past and then try to come back. I tell them to trust their eyes, hit it the first time as they go by.
We broke many more targets on shells 15-25 than 1-15.
Most of the kids are shooting field guns, but I want them to see the target rather than cover the target.

Good luck.
 

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Start with gun fit, and get them shooting where they are looking, that should give them enough confidence to stop bead checking, then get into where they are missing.
 

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I always start my new shooters by telling them if the target is moving left, shoot at the left edge. If the target is moving right, shoot the right edge. If the target is moving straight out from you shoot the closest part / bottom of the target. I also make them follow the path of the bird after they pull the trigger to teach them to stay in the gun and follow through.
This works for trap, 5 stand and sporting clays. Skeet is a little different but this is a simple way to get them to understand.

You don't have to start worrying about leading targets until you move back. From the 16y line just have them work the edges.
 

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I think leads vary from person to person plus each sport has different target presentations. Do you swing the gun slow or fast, sustained lead or follow thru & etc.
I do understand what he is saying though. Plus my 2 foot may be different than anothers idea of what 2 foot is or looks like.
If you had said "perceived lead" in your first statement, you would have been absolutely correct. However, actual lead is determined only by target speed, payload speed, and distance from muzzle to target at the break point.
 

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When addressing the issue of "lead" I usually tell the student that he or she should NEVER look at the barrel. Then I tell them to look for separation between the barrel and the bird. Then I tell them that their peripheral vision will take care of "seeing" the barrel without looking at it. Then I have them do some exercises that force them to use their peripheral vision. It usually clicks for them. JPM
 

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Find a long time 4-H instructor that has at least 10 years experience. 4H is strictly youth based target shooting. NRA is fine but it's focused on all ages. Also the advice given above post are great things to consider also. Teaching kids is very rewarding. Be safe and Enjoy the fun of watching them grow..
 
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