[joe scout]

Does anyone know an expert on trench guns ? As a Marine scout/ sniper in Vietnam from time to time we had access to shotguns, looking at a couple of shotguns one day I noticed a Stevens/Savage m77E it was out of place next to a couple of m12s. Years later I bought a 77E for $100.00 not know much about its history, they're now selling for around $3000.00. Most were left behind in Vietnam after the U.S. pulled out, details on the Internet. A couple of years ago I bought another gun l thought was a 77E when I got it home it turned out to be a m69E stamped U.S. on the right side and stamped V.N. 6XX on the left this one is blued most were parkerized and some of the 69Es saw action in Vietnam basically same gun as the 77E, history of the 69E very limited, being more rare then the 77E how would one determined its value ?

Tks,

Joescout

 

[grntitan]

Does anyone know an expert on trench guns ? As a Marine scout/ sniper in Vietnam from time to time we had excess to shotguns, looking at a couple of shotguns one day I noticed a Stevens/Savage m77E it was out of place next to a couple of m12s. Years later I bought a 77E for $100.00 not know much about its history, they're selling for around $3000.00. Most were left behind in Vietnam after the U.S. pulled out, details on the Internet. A couple of years ago I bought another gun l thought was a 77E when I got it home it turned out to be a m69E stamped U.S. on the right side and stamped V.N. 6XX on the left this one is blued most were parkerized and some of the 69Es saw action in Vietnam basically same gun as the 77E, history of the 69E very limited, being more rare then the 77E how would determine its value ?

Tks,

Joescout

The only way to truly determine its value is to sell it. Anything is only worth what someone is willing to give you for it. That said, the next option is to find comparable guns which have sold "recently" and take note of the actual selling price. I said recently because the gun market goes through stages of highs and lows on various makes and models. A gun that sold for $100's years ago, could be worth $1000's now or vice versa.

 

[perazzidave]

I knew a guy who has passed on about 10 years ago, he ran messages during WWII for the Marines. He was on Iwo Jima and was hit there pretty badly. He had a Thompson that was his carry weapon and he hated it. Billy traded the Thompson for a Trench Winchester model 97 and it served him well. Iwo was his last campaign and he spent a lot of time recouping from his injuries.

PD

 

[joe scout]

The only way to truly determine its value is to sell it. Anything is only worth what someone is willing to give you for it. That said, the next option is to find comparable guns which have sold "recently" and take note of the actual selling price. I said recently because the gun market goes through stages of highs and lows on various makes and models. A gun that sold for $100's years ago, could be worth $1000's now or vice versa.

I got that, thats where I found the current value of the 77E many fewer m69Es made. Like the folks that I bought these guns from they only saw them as run of the mill pump Stevens. These were the only guns ever produced for the U.S. military with a rubber butt pad and the ones with the rubber butt pads had the stocks shortened for the smaller Vietnames soldier, the same gun for U.S. forces were longer and with a steel butt plate. Never saw a m69E sold as the trench/riot it is, quite possibly the fewest trench guns made in this configuration ? Iike to find one marked, U.S. V.N. 3 digits that sold. These guns were sold to the U.S. military for $31.59.

Tks !

 

[grntitan]

I got that, thats where I found the current value of the 77E many fewer m69Es made. Like the folks that I bought these guns from they only saw them as run of the mill Stevens. These were the only guns ever produced for the U.S. military with a rubber butt pad and the ones with the rubber butt pads had the stocks shortened for the smaller Vietnames soldier, the same gun for U.S. forces were longer and with a steel butt plate. Never saw a m69E sold as the trench/riot it is, quite possibly the fewest trench guns made in this configuration ? Iike to find one marked, U.S. V.N. 3 digits that sold. These guns were sold to the U.S. military for $31.59.

Tks !

You need to find a gun dealer or collector who specializes in military guns. Many run of the mill gun shops won't get past the fact that it's a pump shotgun of a lesser known make. They will completely fail to see its rarity.

Post some pics. I think they are cool.

 

[Skeet69]

Joe Scout, PM me. I have a contact for you.
Mike B

 

[joe scout]

What gun would be more efficient than a short barreled shotgun loaded with buckshot when the enemy is testing your defenses trying to find a hole in your wire during the night ?

Joescout

 

[Oldman1949]

That would depend on how heavy , or light your defences were and where and how much wire you had out .

 

[soup]

That would depend on how heavy , or light your defences were and where and how much wire you had out .

And also if your Claymore detonators were dry

 

[Border Bandit]

I would contact the NRA and ask the question. They have a section near the front that discusses such things with great information and lots of well researched, pertinent facts.

 

[joe scout]

Joe Scout, PM me. I have a contact for you.
Mike B

Tks, Mike !

That would depend on how heavy , or light your defences were and where and how much wire you had out .

Talking about the Marine Firebases along the DMZ. By most military standards not very good defenses couple rows of wires. Electronic sensors a row of concertina wire anti personal mines more wire. Depending on the threat intel might fire m60s throughout the nite, not from fixed postions but moving a couple of m60s up and down our trench line. I think there are at least two very clear pictures of Marines with trench guns at one of the most northern Marine firebases, Con Thien. Google up -- October 27th, 1967 " Life Magazine "Inside the cone of fire " Con Thien by David Douglas Duncan. Picture # 748 shows a Marine with a trench gun, picture says Khe Sanh but is Con Thien.

I would contact the NRA and ask the question. They have a section near the front that discusses such things with great information and lots of well researched, pertinent facts.

 

[joe scout]

Joe Scout, PM me. I have a contact for you.
Mike B

Hi Mike, did not receive contact information. [email protected]

Tks,

Joe

 

[shot410ga]

When I was with the 2nd Marine Division at Camp Lejeune NC in 1964 I use to check out Model 12's to go deer hunting with on the base. They had racks of them. I don't know if these used in Vietnam, but I saw Thompson's, M1 sniper rifles, BAR's and Model 97's at various places. The Marines used a lot of old stuff in the early part of the war. I left Vietnam in October of 1966 and we still did not have any of the new Bell Huey Helicopters the Army was flying. Marines were still flying the big Green 34's with the giant rotary engines. We had not even been issued the M-16's as yet, still had the great M-14.

 

[joe scout]

When I was with the 2nd Marine Division at Camp Lejeune NC in 1964 I use to check out Model 12's to go deer hunting with on the base. They had racks of them. I don't know if these used in Vietnam, but I saw Thompson's, M1 sniper rifles, BAR's and Model 97's at various places. The Marines used a lot of old stuff in the early part of the war. I left Vietnam in October of 1966 and we still did not have any of the new Bell helicopters the Army was flying. Marines were still flying the big Green 34's with the giant rotary engines. We had not even been issued the M-16's as yet.

Going back along way. K company 3/9 in April 1967. Had a boot camp buddy KIA on hill 881 above Khe Sanh they had just received M-16s. As I recall some of those Marines had trouble with their M16s, whether defective weapons or not being familiar with the M16 ? I was eventually attached to that company many pissed off Marines. A career Lt. and Staff Sgt. were washed out of the Corps because of their lack of leadership on that operation. Lots of WW11 weapons in use at our main base of Dong Ha on the coast, saw BARs, Thompsons, M1 carbines, shotguns, I think M1 Garands in hands of some South Vietnam security forces.

 

[Chance McCall]

Does anyone know an expert on trench guns ? As a Marine scout/ sniper in Vietnam from time to time we had access to shotguns, looking at a couple of shotguns one day I noticed a Stevens/Savage m77E it was out of place next to a couple of m12s. Years later I bought a 77E for $100.00 not know much about its history, they're now selling for around $3000.00. Most were left behind in Vietnam after the U.S. pulled out, details on the Internet. A couple of years ago I bought another gun l thought was a 77E when I got it home it turned out to be a m69E stamped U.S. on the right side and stamped V.N. 6XX on the left this one is blued most were parkerized and some of the 69Es saw action in Vietnam basically same gun as the 77E, history of the 69E very limited, being more rare then the 77E how would one determined its value ?

Tks,

Joescout

You might try Phil Davis who is a frequent speaker and recognized authority on military weapons and the author of several books of military fiction. https://www.amazon.com/Fall-Giant-Phil-Davis-ebook/dp/B018J2R378 He has a Masters Degree in History and works at a gun store in Springfield, Illinois (Birds n Brooks Army Navy Surplus)

 

[DC1958]

Very interesting thread

 

[Skeet69]

Hi Mike, did not receive contact information. [email protected]

Tks,

Joe

Email sent, Joe!
Mike B

 

[DONNE]

The ship I was on from '69 to '71 had the standard 870 "riot" guns and W Model 12 "trench" guns plus the assorted vintage WWII firearms. That's how old it was! We shot up a bunch of M1 ammo that had 43 stamped on the base. The M12s were interesting as they had a heat shield over the barrel, extended magazine and a bayonet lug.
I often wonder what happened to all that stuff when the ship was decommissioned/scrapped.

 

[joe scout]

The ship I was on from '69 to '71 had the standard 870 "riot" guns and W Model 12 "trench" guns plus the assorted vintage WWII firearms. That's how old it was! We shot up a bunch of M1 ammo that had 43 stamped on the base. The M12s were interesting as they had a heat shield over the barrel, extended magazine and a bayonet lug.
I often wonder what happened to all that stuff when the ship was decommissioned/scrapped.

Back at Camp Pendleton after my tour in Vietnam I was at Camp Edison rifle range, this particular day we were training some recruits out in the field when we were called back to a rendezvous point ASAP. We had no idea
what was the emergency, MLK was just senselessly assassinated. We were trucked back to Camp Edison and told to return to our duty stations, mine was the armory, we were told to start breaking out the riot guns, many of these shotguns had never been out of their original crates, I was fascinated by the array of trench guns, the base went on full alert and we were to start training for riot control ! As I recall we were given a questionnaire to fill out and in a indirect way this questionnaire was asking if we would use our weapons on cilivians if ordered to do so ? Race relations at an all-time low, I went to the chow hall the next day it was not open yet I
was sitting on the steps alone and there were some American Black Marines ( 4 or 5) behind me I noticed that the flag at the end of the parade deck was at half staff, I turned and asked in Marine Corps language, why was the ------ flag at half staff ? Damm near had to fight my way out of there !

Joescout

 

[flashmax]

Tks, Mike !


Talking about the Marine Firebases along the DMZ. By most military standards not very good defenses couple rows of wires. Electronic sensors a row of concertina wire anti personal mines more wire. Depending on the threat intel might fire m60s throughout the nite, not from fixed postions but moving a couple of m60s up and down our trench line. I think there are at least two very clear pictures of Marines with trench guns at one of the most northern Marine firebases, Con Thien. Google up -- October 27th, 1967 " Life Magazine "Inside the cone of fire " Con Thien by David Douglas. Picture # 748 shows a Marine with a trench gun, picture says Khe Sanh but is Con Thien.

I bet bux to ducks it was David Douglas Duncan up at Con Thien and The Rockpile.