When I started shooting trap and money games back in the early '80s I met one of the greatest guys' that I ever had the honor to shoot with. His name was Frank Gurney(sp?)(may God rest his soul) and he was a fireman from Hammond, Indiana.....
He would always tell me; "You can NEVER have to much choke in your gun and you can NEVER have to much shot in your shell"........
Words of wisdom that I still live by today, almost thirty years later......Terry
I once asked an all American trap shooter what is the ideal choke for 27 yard handicap shooting? He answered, the tightest choke I can find. I then asked him why does he use 7 1/2 size shot? He said because the rules won't allow me to use 7 size shot.
You guys are silly and out of touch. the newer bbls of .735 to .750 control the shot well and you get fewer flyers and they stay in the pattern. I like center core density hits too, but any choke .030 to .035 is entirely adequate for trap. And that includes 27 yards.The big dogs are not shooting .040, why should you?
Dr. Andrew posted some statistics that seemed to indicate from .030 to .050, there's not that much difference.
To quote Dr. Andrew, <i>"I did a lot of testing with ~30, ~40, and ~50 thou. By testing I mean proper numerical tests. There wasn't much between them. With some shells the 40-thou gave patterns a little tighter than the other chokes. With other shells things reversed - but not by much. The safest bet for the tightest patterns with the least amount of risk and effort seems to me to be something ~40-thou. But a little bit either way will not make much difference."</i>
The truth about what you need in order to break long range targets can be humbling. BufferBob who posts here is a tuff fun and games shooter as well as trapshooter.
He schooled me and some others with 28 thousandtha choke one day on targets that were as far as a trap will throw them and then we backed off another 20 yards. Maybe it was the old "indian and not the arrow" I don't know for sure.
Not all sizes of shot shoot best through a particular barrel/choke combination. I know this is true because I have a bore Mic and i pattern hunting loads a whole bunch.
I have seen one barrel with a .725 bore and 34 points of choke shoot 31 lead BB's in a 30 inch circle at 60 yards. The next one did 44 on average.
That load only starts out with 75 pellets. If the bore is the same and the choke is the same how can this be? Barrel harmonics perhaps?
I know that extra full turkey type chokes have too much choke for large sizes of shot and they do not pattern worth a hoot. Doing 18 to 23 BB's at 60 yards.
My baker big bore puts more lead Bb;s in a 30 inch circle at 60 yards then any other barrel I have seen. .800 bore with the 760 choke which is 40 points of choke. It will do 48 BB's on average. That is damn near 75% pattern at 60 yards.
I know guys who's best patterns with Bb's has come with choke more tyypical of a modified choke.
I have an 870m remington that will pattern so many lead 4's that it would be silly to shoot lead 6's as the gun puts within 2% of the lead 6 patterns with lead 4's.
any time you can use bigger shot and get nearly teh same performance you would be a fool not to.
The pattern board is the ultimate sifter of bullshit. Jeff
As SuperXJeff says the pattern board is the the ultimate sifter. . .
The article above shows that the best tight choke may well be somewhere between 30 and 35 thousands. About half-way down there is a table of pattern runs done with 33 to 43 thousands choke. The table shows that the pattern actually tightened as the choke was opened to 33 thou. And the uniformity (target hole count) improved as well.
Remember that choke performance is not automatically a dial measurement, it's the result of the match between cartridge and choke and barrel. For the optimum, you have to either go through the pattern testing ordeal or have a barrel adjuster work his magic with your preferred cartridge.
For the ones advocating something more in the .035 range of choke versus .043, how much actual effective hitting area is really gained? Explain why please that .008 choke will make all the difference in scoring.
When stating a person needs to pattern to tell, whats the percentage of average or even longtime shooters that can actually read and analize a pattern properly? Is it just counting holes and largest number of hits in a 30" circle?
You're post above is correct for singles and doubles. Leo shoots .045 constriction in his handicap barrel according to Karla.
Subject: What Leo Harrison shoots
Email: [email protected]
Date: Mon, Dec 28, 2009 - 11:15 AM ET
Yes, he shoots his O/U, top barrel, full (.037 inches) constriction. For doubles his first shot is .017 and the second shot is .037. He has a theory about how you need to learn to shoot a "hot core" and not rely on a big pattern.
Leo shoots .045 constrictions in his handicap barrel.
the evidence from research shows that anything over .040" tends to start throwing more flyers from excessively damaged pellets going through the tighter constrictions. What most people don't know is a careful matching of reloading components can just about make any choke perform well.
What I have learned in chokes.. depending on the wall thickness of the wad..and shape of the basewad.. you WILL reach a point of diminishing returns.. Usually somewhere around .050 the pattern starts going backwards.. A choke usually gets tighter.. and tighter.. and tighter.......then it stops... then it starts to open up...
Your wad design..payload,speed,shot hardness all has an input to when this is going to happen.. Anyone who builds chokes for card shooting can tell you all about this.. As well as any good barrelsmith...
There are those of you that will try different shells to obtain what you want in a pattern.. and others that will alter the choke or barrel.. or both..
Both ways are effective if you know how and why of patterns.. Hope this helps.. All Good.. Mike
might shoot like a rifle, but they destroy a larger number of pellets that won't be in the pattern. Those of us shooting moving targets with a shotgun don't wish to sacrifice pellet count. All the card shooters are looking for is a small dense core, bb count is out the window, just how much of that shot was destroyed by going through the choke? If tighter was a distinct advantage for moving targets you'd see a trend of .050" plus chokes, it hasn't happened. A well known gunsmith and choke guru now deceased had been my source, I trusted his opinions as did thousands of others. I have also spent countless hours of checking patterns, choke profiles and reload development. You can only do so much with lead shot, a plastic wad, and barrel constriction with the random chaotic dispersion of the pattern.