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Ya can't miss with a shotgun
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And all along I thought it was just a hollow metal tube with a little taper on the end through which a wee bit of shot of inexact dimensions, randomly placed in a protective plastic cup, colliding with each other along the way under tremendous velocity, only to then encounter unpredictable air turbulence, each pellet reacting in its own individual way, toward a target under the same atmospheric influences. Whew.... whoduthunkit?!! :ROFLMAO:
 

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And all along I thought it was just a hollow metal tube with a little taper on the end through which a wee bit of shot of inexact dimensions, randomly placed in a protective plastic cup, colliding with each other along the way under tremendous velocity, only to then encounter unpredictable air turbulence, each pellet reacting in its own individual way, toward a target under the same atmospheric influences. Whew.... whoduthunkit?!! :ROFLMAO:
You should appreciate having been granted answers to one of the Mysteries Of The Cosmos. 馃
 

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Hugh 3200, I鈥檇 like to know what your yardage and averages are? No
name in your profile but for you to make the statement you did you
obviously don鈥榯 know much about shooting. JMO
What in blue blazes does one鈥檚 ATA scores have to do with commenting on the obvious. The op鈥檚 patterns visually look no different than the patterns shot with a full smoke 24鈥 Mossberg at similar yardage. There is no factual or remotely coherent evidence presented that illustrates any logical pattern improvement as a result of the as usual, nebulously described barrel tuning. Shot is wrapped in a plastic sleeve whilst traveling the full length of the barrel, all mashed and locked together due to the very substantial G force acceleration that occurs instantly at the moment of ignition. What specific incantation or physical metallurgic process can a tuner use that influences an en bloc mass of pellets into a consistently improved pattern post wallet surgery? Plastiwrapped shot is extruded from a choke tube at the same diameter as the choke tube. After that point, diverse ballistics of randomly sized, shaped and variable weight pellets create a pattern. Choke for smoke. That鈥檚 all there is to it.

Shoot ten patterns before the magic work is done and 10 patterns after with the same ammo, same trap shooting distance, same procedures. Compare the average pellet count in the central 30鈥 if you can accurately find it and report back with the findings. You would think it would be easy enough for a choke manufacturer or barrel tuner to perform and present publicly for peer review.

Post clear 300 dpi photos of the full patterns (before and after) on paper which include a ruler (standard or metric) and I鈥檒l count the holes for the 30鈥 circumference. No sweat.

If barrel tuning is nothing more than changing out chokes, I鈥檓 a tuner, you鈥檙e a tuner.
 

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Feeling a bit battered with my original post. I wish to address some issues brought up in responses.

-Some good points have been made, don't call it a test without empirical methodology. Agreed.
-This was not an empirical evidence research study. I did not hold a pre and post with 20 samples in identical temperature/humidity/sunlight/wind conditions. It took 10 weeks to get the barrel done, so repeating identical conditions for pre and post was impossible. I did have pre barrel work pictures but had deleted them when the joy they gave me diminished. I have tried to see if Apple Cloud still had them but to no avail. That will be nailed up as a lousy excuse by naysayers. Is what it is. They existed and now do not. I made them, drew conclusions from them (hot core and strays) which drove me to see if improvement could be achieved with a process. I certainly felt there was a motivating issue in place that required action.
-Anecdotal observations do not delight the analytical mind. Rather it seems to drive the analytical mind toward a refusal to consider intangible variables that are not measured and evidenced as not relevant to the process in any way. If you didn't do it my way then it is not relevant. If not empirical, then not to be considered. Seems to me that can result in a closed mind which can go...well we know we are all guilty of that one. People do get convicted of crime with only anecdotal evidence...Seems the case here.
-I am happy with what I spent to get what I got. I "perceive" less recoil (anecdotal). I see better breaks (anecdotal). I feel more confidence, likely because I am concentrating more given a change in my game (anecdotal). For some reason I feel more motivated to keep my chokes clean (anecdotal).
-In the future I will not make spontaneous decisions to post anything (even pictures of my dog) without empirical evidence certified by outside reviewers.
-Some did not read my tag line. It is what I am if you know me. When younger I was a truck driver that became a welder in the oil patch who after Mother's continual prodding was convinced to go to college at a late age obtaining multiple degrees, became a CPA in public practice, owned my own practice, a retail business and rental properties while becoming a University Accounting Professor lasting 28 years. I do have the mental capacity to understand science, analytical dissection and anecdotal observations. I also pride myself that I have an open mind and can consider other's opinions - observations.

Rant complete. Go Cats!
If you do post a pic of your dog, do you have empirical data to prove that it is indeed a dog??? Sorry for the de-rail!
 

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Wilkinson has been the "go to" guy for barrel work for decades. Money well spent! You'll get a lot of opinions on TS.com about choke constriction but as you touched on earlier, it's what feels best to you as far as your hits are concerned. Put in the work, practice a lot from the 27 with your chokes, gauge your hits, and you will come up with the choke solution that you feel gives you the best consistency. Then never doubt yourself. I had a choke tube manufacturer experiment with different internal configurations and constrictions for me that I used on my Kolar. I settled on a .027 choke that I used for both 27 yard and singles. Worked for me. I had the pleasure of shooting with Leo III quite a few times and did his recoil pad work on his DT10. He used a .035 choke for handicap (top single barrel) and not much more open for singles (top barrel of the O/U). I asked him about his choke choices and he said he liked a "hot core" for his pattern. Well, he could put that "hot core" on the target much better than most of the rest of us------------! So, your mileage may vary. Having the Wilkinson tuned barrels is a good step forward.
 

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Me and Shotguns are like a woman with shoes, I have so darn many, giving details would be difficult
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To steal a line from one of my absolute favorite movies (it's about baseball, but I am taking artistic license here), "If you think you are shooting well because you are getting laid or because you're not getting laid, or because you're wearing women's underwear, then you ARE!"
BUT...do I have to 'Breath through my eyelids" to really shoot well Tim !!!! :LOL: (the way i shoot sometimes...I don't think it could hurt?!!) o_O
 

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Hugh 3200, I鈥檇 like to know what your yardage and averages are? No
name in your profile but for you to make the statement you did you
obviously don鈥榯 know much about shooting. JMO
This may come as a massive blow to the shooting community, but a knowledge of or proficiency in shooting has squat to do with examining and evaluating a mechanical system subject to, as are all mechanical systems, the constraints of Newtonian physics.
Science is like witchcraft only real
 

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K-80 Trap Special top single with a Grip Plus stock.
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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
This may come as a massive blow to the shooting community, but a knowledge of or proficiency in shooting has squat to do with examining and evaluating a mechanical system subject to, as are all mechanical systems, the constraints of Newtonian physics.
Science is like witchcraft only real
Photograph Sleeve Font Tie Flash photography
 
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K-80 Trap Special top single with a Grip Plus stock.
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Discussion Starter · #73 · (Edited)
If you do post a pic of your dog, do you have empirical data to prove that it is indeed a dog??? Sorry for the de-rail!
This is my GSP Dog..14 years old (verified as a canine via my vet, see picture). I got her at one year old when her original owner had decided to euthanize her as he could not control her. He made her gun shy and she refused to hunt. I could care less that she does not like guns. We have instead gone hunting without a gun and she has the most fun ever. She has been my best fur friend for the last 13 years, even when her separation anxiety inspired her to destroy all the shades in the camper while I was out shooting. She is pretty good at racoon and pack rat control. Closest I have ever been to a dog, and I have had four shorthairs over 30 years. Her name is Molly, but no one calls her that...she goes by Goobie because she can be a goober....

Dog Carnivore Dog breed Whiskers Snout
Handwriting Font Parallel Paper Paper product
Carnivore Beak Terrestrial animal Grass Tail
Dog Dog breed Carnivore Fawn Companion dog
Sky Dog Carnivore Collar Dog breed
Snow Dog Dog breed Carnivore Freezing
 

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K-80 Trap Special top single with a Grip Plus stock.
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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
Nora Ross was the first one to suggest to me having Tom Wilkinson tune the barrel and fixed choke on my TM1. That was good enough for me.
Phil Kiner told me to get it done.....
 

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This would all be put to rest if the experts who do this work would show the before and after results of their work on paper. This is physics, not voodoo, so it should be easy enough to convince even the most ardent doubter. If none of them have ever done this, a person should ask why not before parting with their money.
 

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My HT5 factory fixed .032 choke shot a disappointing 85%@ 35yds.
TW did my barrelwork and now its fixed choke .036 and shoots 92%@ 35yds.
In 4 shoots I have two 199s a 200 and multiple 100s
I really think the naysayers need to be the ones to show data.
The naysayers aren't the ones making money. Besides, Neil Winston showed plenty of data that I would love to compare with the data from the other side, but I can't find any. How do you know you couldn't have achieved the same thing by having someone else just jug choke your gun to .036?
 

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The naysayers aren't the ones making money. Besides, Neil Winston showed plenty of data that I would love to compare with the data from the other side, but I can't find any. How do you know you couldn't have achieved the same thing by having someone else just jug choke your gun to .036?
That's Funny.
I haven't thought about it and don't plan on it.
 
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