[Trap Cat]

This fixed choke barrel has a 4" choke section and shoots winning scores front to back. View attachment 1866291

Love it...That is an awesome way to illustrate the results.

 

[Ram Rod]

So essentially it is a choke reaming job?

The interior barrel profile and quality of shot is what makes good patterns.

Reaming job ? Yes

 

[Trap Cat]

So essentially it is a choke reaming job?

More refined than that in that the back bore is adjusted, forcing cone lengthened if needed and choke constriction done to match the associated back bore. Note how @Ram Rod choke section is illustrated. The constriction is adjusted to max pattern gradually until its where needed over a range of the barrel. Herb Orre was onto the idea years ago but his approach was not as refined. I have a Model 12 with a Herb Orre choke and it looks much like the Wilkinson pattern.

 

[Biged]

More of a full length Sunnen honing job, I doubt Tom "reams" anything. What you get are mirror polished bores with a bore/choke profile that performs. Of course Neal Winston and Tim state it doesn't matter..... but the list of All Americans/AAA shooters with averages higher than Neal or Tim's high scores whom are believers in Tom's work might speak to the fact that Tom provides a valued service.
Tom can influence the choke to raise, lower or horizontally move the pattern if your barrel doesn't shoot straight. He will also tell you if your barrel isn't worth spending money on. I trust him completely.

 

[stockguy]

Wilkinson has been the "go to" guy for barrel work for decades. Money well spent! You'll get a lot of opinions on TS.com about choke constriction but as you touched on earlier, it's what feels best to you as far as your hits are concerned. Put in the work, practice a lot from the 27 with your chokes, gauge your hits, and you will come up with the choke solution that you feel gives you the best consistency. Then never doubt yourself. I had a choke tube manufacturer experiment with different internal configurations and constrictions for me that I used on my Kolar. I settled on a .027 choke that I used for both 27 yard and singles. Worked for me. I had the pleasure of shooting with Leo III quite a few times and did his recoil pad work on his DT10. He used a .035 choke for handicap (top single barrel) and not much more open for singles (top barrel of the O/U). I asked him about his choke choices and he said he liked a "hot core" for his pattern. Well, he could put that "hot core" on the target much better than most of the rest of us------------! So, your mileage may vary. Having the Wilkinson tuned barrels is a good step forward.

 

[Steel Charlie]

I don't even know where to start

 

[I'dhitthat]

I didn't want to join this conversation but more accurately Neil Winston stated that he believed from his testing that a barrel tuner could take a poor barrel and improve it but didn't feel that they could take a barrel that was already great from the factory, and it make better. My personal experience is that I've had factory barrels that shoot excellent patterns and I've had tuned barrels that shoot excellent patterns as well.

 

[hbar314]

More of a full length Sunnen honing job, I doubt Tom "reams" anything. What you get are mirror polished bores with a bore/choke profile that performs. Of course Neal Winston and Tim state it doesn't matter..... but the list of All Americans/AAA shooters with averages higher than Neal or Tim's high scores whom are believers in Tom's work might speak to the fact that Tom provides a valued service.
Tom can influence the choke to raise, lower or horizontally move the pattern if your barrel doesn't shoot straight. He will also tell you if your barrel isn't worth spending money on. I trust him completely.

That's a lot of olympic medals!

 

[porthos]

sorry, but i would have see the breaks from a .015 choke from the 27. and i would want to measure both bore and choke. please don't be offended.

 

[shannonAA]

Wilkinson has been the "go to" guy for barrel work for decades. Money well spent! You'll get a lot of opinions on TS.com about choke constriction but as you touched on earlier, it's what feels best to you as far as your hits are concerned. Put in the work, practice a lot from the 27 with your chokes, gauge your hits, and you will come up with the choke solution that you feel gives you the best consistency. Then never doubt yourself. I had a choke tube manufacturer experiment with different internal configurations and constrictions for me that I used on my Kolar. I settled on a .027 choke that I used for both 27 yard and singles. Worked for me. I had the pleasure of shooting with Leo III quite a few times and did his recoil pad work on his DT10. He used a .035 choke for handicap (top single barrel) and not much more open for singles (top barrel of the O/U). I asked him about his choke choices and he said he liked a "hot core" for his pattern. Well, he could put that "hot core" on the target much better than most of the rest of us------------! So, your mileage may vary. Having the Wilkinson tuned barrels is a good step forward.

I squaded several times with Leo at the Great lakes Grand after a couple of clinics with him.
I asked him why he shot his top barrel at singles instead of his under barrel. He said, "because the choke tubes are stuck!"
He let me try a couple of shots with his gun to try out his new "stock lock"
I looked down his bore and never seen such a buildup of plastic in the tubes.. I said, "dang Leo this thing needs a cleaning." He said, "yeah I guess it's been a few thousand .. I'll have the doc take a look at it. 😝

 

[timb99]

Fred....let's talk.

Had Wilkinson do my barrels and chokes. K-80 Trap Special with chokes tuned to match the barrel. Three chokes (.35, .25 and .15) at 33 yards (why 33?....it was as far back as I could get given where the board is and a fence. So I really was at the 'back fence'). I wish I still had the pictures from before the work, but do not. Yes, I shoot a high gun, that is not the issue...it is how even the patterns are. Before I had clumps and holes, not many strays now. Quite an improvement in my opinion. I am a believer. I would note that felt recoil is less than before. Will not discuss the cost.

Top picture on the left = .35
Top picture on the right = .25
Bottom picture on the left = .15
Bottom picture on the right = .35 left and .15 on the right. (Funny note, in this picture check out the big dent on the far left...someone shot the pattern board with a slug last year. This is half inch thick steel and it not only dented it but impressed the steel inward for 6" around the impact point)

Which of these patterns do you like best for say... singles then handicap? I'm at 27 yards. For me the .35 most likely for both singles and handicap. My brain registers smoke on a single better with what to do than a target just vaporizing or breaking into 5 pieces. For some I shoot with they want to play the percentages like baseball. Bigger pattern = higher singles scores. Any break is a dead bird. I would argue that wide patterns won't work as well at 27 yards.

Edit...this is 455 grains (shade over 1 oz.) of #8 shot with 19.4 grains of Green Dot in a Federal paper.

Fred....let's talk.

 

[timb99]

but the list of All Americans/AAA shooters with averages higher than Neal or Tim's high scores whom are believers in Tom's work might speak to the fact that Tom provides a valued service.

Do any of those people you mentioned do testing like this? No. They don't. Neil did.

Pattern Testing Results - Four Guns, One with a...

After returning from Africa and meeting Dukefan who lives not far from my home, and learning that besides being a really good guy, he has in his possession two nearly identical Krieghoff K-80 Trap Special 34 inch Top Single shotguns, one of which has a factory original barrel and the other of...

www.trapshooters.com

 

[Dukefan]

Oh Boy, here we go! Having shot factory and Wilkinson barrels, all I will say is BOTH are capable of shooting better than I do.

 

[peavine]

You don't have to get "caught up" because Wilkinson uses % in a 30" circle to evaluate the performance of his work.
He didn't choke your gun by guessing.

You mean he actually uses numbers and stats instead of "reading the tea leaves" or some other voodoo? Seriously though, he is very good at what he does. If I'm not mistaken, if you buy a Silver Seitz with choke tubes, Tom Wilkinson put them in, unless this has changed.

 

[Ram Rod]

You mean he actually uses numbers and stats instead of "reading the tea leaves" or some other voodoo? Seriously though, he is very good at what he does. If I'm not mistaken, if you buy a Silver Seitz with choke tubes, Tom Wilkinson put them in, unless this has changed.

Yes he uses the 40 yard pellets inside a 30 inch circle method.
He stays several weeks behind.

 

[Trap Cat]

Yes he uses the 40 yard pellets inside a 30 inch circle method.
He stays several weeks behind.

10 Weeks currently.

 

[pheasantmaster]

So let’s play a game of defiance.

Tommy performs his barrel package. Actual real world substantiation cannot be proven that you the owner will break more targets now than if the barrel/barrels were left untouched. But, neither can substantiation be proven that you won’t break more targets. To many random variables.

But, now after having a barrel package performed the owner is overwhelmed with confidence that every target pointed correctly will come apart, then the owner will break more targets without doubt.

 

[The Canuck]

More of a full length Sunnen honing job, I doubt Tom "reams" anything. What you get are mirror polished bores with a bore/choke profile that performs. Of course Neal Winston and Tim state it doesn't matter..... but the list of All Americans/AAA shooters with averages higher than Neal or Tim's high scores whom are believers in Tom's work might speak to the fact that Tom provides a valued service.
Tom can influence the choke to raise, lower or horizontally move the pattern if your barrel doesn't shoot straight. He will also tell you if your barrel isn't worth spending money on. I trust him completely.

Yes I should have phrased that properly. Honing like you would do with an engines cylinders.

 

[Hugh 3200]

No direct irrefutable comparison of patterns before and after the magic was done. An observation alluding that “clumps and holes” in the patterns are now noticeably improved without a lick of evidence or an explanation of how “barrel work” can improve pattern uniformity of shot contained and compressed in a plastic wrapper until it leaves the barrel, tuned or not. Hogwash. I see no “barrel tuning pattern test”.

 

[Biged]

Do any of those people you mentioned do testing like this? No. They don't. Neil did.

Neil felt an overwhelming urge to have people believe as he believed...... and would spend innumerable hours making data and charts presentable to support his beliefs. All good, the man was bright and was very charismatic. A pleasure to argue with, he indeed had a following. You as an engineer know you can make any data set sing whatever chorus you want, data manipulation is how many engineers support their careers and how bridges are built that fall down. I am not accusing, just a fact of life.
The one thing never recorded was exactly what pattern percentages a singles, 18-21 yarder, a 22-24.5 yarder, a 25-26 yarder and a 27 yarder actually need to pulverize lightly or pulverize completely targets from all those distances. I don't think I've ever seen the hard truth printed, just opinions.

Does the 18 yarder need the same choke\pattern percentage as a 27 yarder? Probably not, does the data have any conditions regarding that? Nope. Take singles, does a "D" class shooter even have the skills to discern the difference or even make use of a top notch performing combination?

"Full for Everything!" is a rallying cry heard, does it work? Absolutely, many decent shooters follow that prescription. Would they shoot higher averages with a poorer performing shell that would open the pattern? Meh..... does it matter?

A person has to make the decision to have barrel work done and then believe in it or not. Smoke in the air gives me confidence, especially from the 27. No charts, no graphs just perception and endorphins. I see more smoke with barrel work.