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are at the link above for your reading pleasure.
Neil
Neil
The November Executive Committee meeting minutes
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Neil, thank you. Shooters and targets continue to decrease.
Are NSSA numbers showing the same trend line?
Would a joint ATA and NSSA task force on joint problems be a timely consideration?
Are NSSA numbers showing the same trend line?
Would a joint ATA and NSSA task force on joint problems be a timely consideration?
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I know Bruce will be a good president for the ATA. Bruce is a go-getter.
Nice job, Bruce, and kudos to past President, Neil Winston.
Nice job, Bruce, and kudos to past President, Neil Winston.
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Neil, Happy Thanksgiving!!!
Somewhat new to shooting ATA this past year. I had a short run at the game back in the 1979/80 year, two great and lifelong friends brought me back into the sport this past year and I love it. Not just for the love of the sport itself, or the addictive smell of spent gunpowder, and the people I have meet and call my new friends.
But mostly for the return of my two boyhood/young man friends which our relationship (long distance) has become strenghen over these last few months. They live in my hometown of Atkinson, Il. I have recently moved from Cheyenne, WY. to Perrysburg, OH., this last summer we three meet at the Grand American and shot the last three days of the program together. We will be returning again this comming year as well, but this time we will give ourselves a couple extra days to enjoy the shoot and catch-up with whats going on in our lives.
Thanksgiving???? For myself, one HECK of a LOT!!!!
Pardon me, time to make a couple phone calls and extend some Thanksgiving well wishes.
Matt Nicol
Somewhat new to shooting ATA this past year. I had a short run at the game back in the 1979/80 year, two great and lifelong friends brought me back into the sport this past year and I love it. Not just for the love of the sport itself, or the addictive smell of spent gunpowder, and the people I have meet and call my new friends.
But mostly for the return of my two boyhood/young man friends which our relationship (long distance) has become strenghen over these last few months. They live in my hometown of Atkinson, Il. I have recently moved from Cheyenne, WY. to Perrysburg, OH., this last summer we three meet at the Grand American and shot the last three days of the program together. We will be returning again this comming year as well, but this time we will give ourselves a couple extra days to enjoy the shoot and catch-up with whats going on in our lives.
Thanksgiving???? For myself, one HECK of a LOT!!!!
Pardon me, time to make a couple phone calls and extend some Thanksgiving well wishes.
Matt Nicol
I read them quickly and have two questions. These questions are possibly based on my misunderstand because of my not reading the minutes with close attention to detail.
1. Cash, or equivalent awards for signing up new shooters. This is typically done at shoots by the person cashiering the shoot. Does this mean that most cashiers will nearly automatically qualify for awards?
2. All American point factor is 2 for shoots as small as five entries? What constitutes a qualifying shoot?
Pat Ireland
1. Cash, or equivalent awards for signing up new shooters. This is typically done at shoots by the person cashiering the shoot. Does this mean that most cashiers will nearly automatically qualify for awards?
2. All American point factor is 2 for shoots as small as five entries? What constitutes a qualifying shoot?
Pat Ireland
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Pat
I didn't see anything in the resolution about signing up NEW shooters, just "full-priced" ones: "Anyone signing up, at least, twenty five (25) “full-priced” members will earn a cash credit towards a life membership in the ATA..." I figure I should be able to get credit for several hundred by just standing in the door at the Michigan Fall Team Shoot.
And what does the final sentence mean: "BE IT NOTED FOR THE RECORD That all rebates, normally applicable to the resident states, shall be suspended for these marketing initiatives."???
Tom Stewart, ATA Life Member
I didn't see anything in the resolution about signing up NEW shooters, just "full-priced" ones: "Anyone signing up, at least, twenty five (25) “full-priced” members will earn a cash credit towards a life membership in the ATA..." I figure I should be able to get credit for several hundred by just standing in the door at the Michigan Fall Team Shoot.
And what does the final sentence mean: "BE IT NOTED FOR THE RECORD That all rebates, normally applicable to the resident states, shall be suspended for these marketing initiatives."???
Tom Stewart, ATA Life Member
Neil,
Thank you for posting the link to the November Executive Committee Minutes.
I am confused by the table of points for other qualifying shoots. If I have read correctly, the minimum number of shooters necessary in order to award All American points will remain at 600. If so, why include a competition factor of 2 points for shoots of 5 to 500 shooters?
On the subject of junior/sub-junior shooters missing school in order to pursue All American points: one suggestion might be to require the shooter to present certification from the school Principal indicating that he/she is capable of making up the missed work. Also, keep in mind that a growing number of youth are home schooled and their education is entirely the responsibility of the parent.
Just my thoughts, thanks for listening.
Jim Blevins - ATA# 9501604
Thank you for posting the link to the November Executive Committee Minutes.
I am confused by the table of points for other qualifying shoots. If I have read correctly, the minimum number of shooters necessary in order to award All American points will remain at 600. If so, why include a competition factor of 2 points for shoots of 5 to 500 shooters?
On the subject of junior/sub-junior shooters missing school in order to pursue All American points: one suggestion might be to require the shooter to present certification from the school Principal indicating that he/she is capable of making up the missed work. Also, keep in mind that a growing number of youth are home schooled and their education is entirely the responsibility of the parent.
Just my thoughts, thanks for listening.
Jim Blevins - ATA# 9501604
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Why are all discussions about AIM and S3F behind closed doors?
Maybe it's because in our overly litigious society some things are more openly discussed behind closed doors. A person might be more likely to express an opinion, and their reasons for it, as to the motives of others when not having to worry about getting sued! Jimmy Borum
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. . . and it could be as well, Jimmy, that each zone has scheduled a delegates' conference call in the next week or so to discuss all aspects of the AIM program and to solicit opinions and suggestions. The ATA will go forward based on those conference calls, and putting a lot in the minutes would just narrow our choices.
Neil
Neil
Neil,
I too question the line "BE IT NOTED FOR THE RECORD That all rebates, normally applicable to the resident states, shall be suspended for these marketing initiatives." Lines 1403 & 1404 in the minutes.
Does this refer to the yearly refunds received by the state associations from memberships (both Life and Yearly) where part of the membership fee is given back to the state association? Is so, this DOES represent a change in the bylaws (Article III.2.f - page 77 of the 2008 rule book - for life members; Article III.3.d = page 78 of 2008 rule book - for annual members) and if this does change the bylaws, does that not need to be voted on by the delegates?
Speaking for the Indiana Trapshooters Association, we count on this money every year from the ATA. If there is to be a suspension of this rebate, I believe it is unfair to the ATA membership to not at least publicly discuss this matter before bringing it to an EC vote. I also believe it is unfair to not have this discussed and voted on by the delegates at the annual meeting.
I will be contacting Jim, the Indiana State Delegate & the Central Zone Vice President on Monday if a clarification is not provided here.
Sincerely,
John Voliva<br>
President<br>
Indiana Trapshooters Association<br>
I too question the line "BE IT NOTED FOR THE RECORD That all rebates, normally applicable to the resident states, shall be suspended for these marketing initiatives." Lines 1403 & 1404 in the minutes.
Does this refer to the yearly refunds received by the state associations from memberships (both Life and Yearly) where part of the membership fee is given back to the state association? Is so, this DOES represent a change in the bylaws (Article III.2.f - page 77 of the 2008 rule book - for life members; Article III.3.d = page 78 of 2008 rule book - for annual members) and if this does change the bylaws, does that not need to be voted on by the delegates?
Speaking for the Indiana Trapshooters Association, we count on this money every year from the ATA. If there is to be a suspension of this rebate, I believe it is unfair to the ATA membership to not at least publicly discuss this matter before bringing it to an EC vote. I also believe it is unfair to not have this discussed and voted on by the delegates at the annual meeting.
I will be contacting Jim, the Indiana State Delegate & the Central Zone Vice President on Monday if a clarification is not provided here.
Sincerely,
John Voliva<br>
President<br>
Indiana Trapshooters Association<br>
John- I missed the rebate suspension in my first reading, thanks for pointing it out. I, like you have concerns about this possible change and await further explanation. I will place a call to John Hiter about this possible change. The Virginia Association, like many others, does not collect state association dues. The ATA rebate is an important source of operating revenue.
Another source of concern to me is that in the past the terms marketing and promotion of the Grand have been nearly synonymous. You may remember by past battles over this issue.
Pat Ireland
Another source of concern to me is that in the past the terms marketing and promotion of the Grand have been nearly synonymous. You may remember by past battles over this issue.
Pat Ireland
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John, Pat, don't worry. The only rebates involve "free" memberships. Say, because I work at getting memberships signed up at my club, I get a cost-free life membership. Normally, a life membership in my state would result in money coming (to my state) from the ATA over time. In these cases that won't happen, since the membership was free. That's all.
Neil
Neil
Neil,
I will be asking my Central Zone Vice-President about those two lines in the minutes, if that is the case. Because the way they are written right now does not clearly point that out. I am surprised Mike Seitz did not catch this in his review of the minutes, which brings my concern to the fact that it may NOT apply only to the free memberships. Therefore, I will ask our VP that at the next EC meeting that the reading of the minutes from the last meeting NOT be dispensed with and that the EC go back and give further clarification on lines 1403 & 1404 to ensure that this suspension ONLY applys to the free memberships.
Sincerely,
John Voliva
I will be asking my Central Zone Vice-President about those two lines in the minutes, if that is the case. Because the way they are written right now does not clearly point that out. I am surprised Mike Seitz did not catch this in his review of the minutes, which brings my concern to the fact that it may NOT apply only to the free memberships. Therefore, I will ask our VP that at the next EC meeting that the reading of the minutes from the last meeting NOT be dispensed with and that the EC go back and give further clarification on lines 1403 & 1404 to ensure that this suspension ONLY applys to the free memberships.
Sincerely,
John Voliva
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John & Pat, the text in question is:
"RESOLVED (in principal) That Executive Director Jim L. Thompson is hereby directed to
develop and administer incentive programs as follows:
Anyone signing up, at least, twenty five (25) “full-priced” members will earn a cash credit towards a life membership in the ATA, or Anyone signing up, at least ten (10) “full-priced” members will earn a cash credittowards a life membership in the ATA or a merchandise credit, redeemable at the ATA Online Marketing Store.
In order to encourage current life members to participate in this initiative - the two (2) foregoing membership incentives - the accumulated credits towards the purchase of a life membership may be assigned one (1) time to anyone else of the life member’s choosing.
RESOLVED That the credits associated herewith shall not expire and will continue to be accumulated, and accounted for, by the ATA.
BE IT NOTED FOR THE RECORD That all rebates, normally applicable to the resident states, shall be suspended for these marketing initiatives."
And it seems to me that "BE IT NOTED FOR THE RECORD That all rebates, normally applicable to the resident states, shall be suspended for these marketing initiatives."
makes it clear that this suspension of rebates applies only to these free life memberships, but will ask Dr. Seitz to amend the minutes to address your concerns.
would "... shall be suspended regarding the free (and only the free) memberships involved in this marketing initiative" be OK?
I don't think this represents a challenge to the By-Laws since there's nothing to rebate anyway. As a practical matter, if the the state was due NN dollars before a life membership was awarded, it is still due just NN dollars, since the fund from which the rebate is withdrawn is unchanged.
This was intended only to warn a state that even though a couple of new life members have shown up on their membership books they won't show up in the rebate, since there's nothing to rebate.
Neil
"RESOLVED (in principal) That Executive Director Jim L. Thompson is hereby directed to
develop and administer incentive programs as follows:
Anyone signing up, at least, twenty five (25) “full-priced” members will earn a cash credit towards a life membership in the ATA, or Anyone signing up, at least ten (10) “full-priced” members will earn a cash credittowards a life membership in the ATA or a merchandise credit, redeemable at the ATA Online Marketing Store.
In order to encourage current life members to participate in this initiative - the two (2) foregoing membership incentives - the accumulated credits towards the purchase of a life membership may be assigned one (1) time to anyone else of the life member’s choosing.
RESOLVED That the credits associated herewith shall not expire and will continue to be accumulated, and accounted for, by the ATA.
BE IT NOTED FOR THE RECORD That all rebates, normally applicable to the resident states, shall be suspended for these marketing initiatives."
And it seems to me that "BE IT NOTED FOR THE RECORD That all rebates, normally applicable to the resident states, shall be suspended for these marketing initiatives."
makes it clear that this suspension of rebates applies only to these free life memberships, but will ask Dr. Seitz to amend the minutes to address your concerns.
would "... shall be suspended regarding the free (and only the free) memberships involved in this marketing initiative" be OK?
I don't think this represents a challenge to the By-Laws since there's nothing to rebate anyway. As a practical matter, if the the state was due NN dollars before a life membership was awarded, it is still due just NN dollars, since the fund from which the rebate is withdrawn is unchanged.
This was intended only to warn a state that even though a couple of new life members have shown up on their membership books they won't show up in the rebate, since there's nothing to rebate.
Neil
Niel,
Something to that effect would suffice. I think it opens up a slipperly slope when the rebates are chained to the "marketing initiatives" even with the word these before it. Down the road if the "marketing initiatives" would be expanded to a discount on membership, would we suspend the rebates on those also? Purley hypothetical, but you can see where I am going.
Harkening back to my Pharmacy law days, I forgot the golden rule -- read the whole rule before trying to make interpertations!
John
Something to that effect would suffice. I think it opens up a slipperly slope when the rebates are chained to the "marketing initiatives" even with the word these before it. Down the road if the "marketing initiatives" would be expanded to a discount on membership, would we suspend the rebates on those also? Purley hypothetical, but you can see where I am going.
Harkening back to my Pharmacy law days, I forgot the golden rule -- read the whole rule before trying to make interpertations!
John
Neil, I anticipate helping classify at the Dixie Grand and the Southern Grand. I will have a stack of membership applications at the desk. I will put my name on the 50 or so that get filled out at the desk. What will my prize be? I missed an opportunity to get my name on another 20 at the local shoot held the first week of October.
If the prize is adequate and I put up a sign at classification stating that I will pay $1 toward the ATA dues for anyone I sign up, I might make some extra money. Or, I could make a post on this site with the same offer and probably sign up several hundred shooters. Please do not mention to Mike S. that renewals are different than new members. That would destroy my business plan.
Pat Ireland
If the prize is adequate and I put up a sign at classification stating that I will pay $1 toward the ATA dues for anyone I sign up, I might make some extra money. Or, I could make a post on this site with the same offer and probably sign up several hundred shooters. Please do not mention to Mike S. that renewals are different than new members. That would destroy my business plan.
Pat Ireland
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Pat, "signing up members" is different from "processing renewals." I expect the word "new" will appear (for example: "Anyone signing up, at least, twenty five (25) “full-priced” new members. . ." in the minutes in the next iteration, perhaps with "new" in italics to clear up any residual confusion.
Neil
Neil
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