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Just wanted to put all these in one spot, chronologically, with a short summary of each. Summary is above picture.

Bbl at shoulder level rather than eye level. Worked ok. Pistol grip was great.




Bbl at cheek level. On the line, held even with clear view to top of trap house. Definite advantage. POI flat. Called it the Barrakuhna.




The Kuhner concept with a little touch up from some friends. It's important to be able to laugh at myself.




The Kuhner concept implemented. H&R kicked back to the left and into my face. Scope too big to see the red dot cross the target.




Different scope, different view. Still messed with face. Also, tiring to left wrist. Didn't fix the problems. Abandoned design temporarily.




Mach One with large thumbhole stock. A bondo pistol grip broke off the prototype so I went to a thumbhole. Had to hold lower to make it work.




Last year's study. Click on pic, then click again on another pic to get slide show to kick in. Bolt screw too close to thumb hole so this evolved.

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/joemkuhn/3200?feat=embedwebsite" style="color:#4D4D4D;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;">3200</a>

Project for this year. Ignore the black lines. Need a junk stock to start with. Wood is too nice.




One last pic, just because I love the design. Look at that forend. Comb should be flat.


 

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What I really want is bbl at cheek level, trigger and pistol grip horizontal to face out to the right, scope 1 inch above bbl and to re-use the name 'Barrakuhna'. Short LOP and heavy at 10+ pounds. The usual twisted butt pad to fit.
 

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Joe below is a "Kuhner" of my own I am working on. Building it for watching the smiles come on the young shooters who get to try it.

On another note, that black and yellow stock is a spin off of one of my original designs, the Barracuda. I no longer have a duplicator or I would make you a stock for your concept.....I'd make one for mine too! There are disadvantages to cnc and the ability to get from concept to product can be a problem. Well, at least for me!

Mike

<a href="http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q188/turmite/?action=view&current=Racegun.jpg" target="_blank">
</a>
 

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Joe on the last photo of the Mach One, can you or anyone tell me what the poi at target distance is with the rib and comb as is in the pic? I need to finish the rib design and want some idea of taper.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #5
That black and yellow stock is a spin off? What do you mean?

The wood and duck tape transition to metal is difficult at times.
 

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Mike, I think all the way down is 100% high, but I could be wrong. It's been a while.
 

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Joe the black and yello stock is a Boyds SS Evolution. The fore end is an almost exact copy of my original Barracuda and the hollowed butt follows my design with their own spin on it...ie, spin off! :) I don't know if they currently produce the Barracuda, but they did for a while. The company I sold the design to did two or three limited edition runs for Ruger through one of their large distributors.

Here is a link to a Google page....probably have to cut and paste.

http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4IRFC_enUS364US364&q=ruger+race+rifle&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=SwFgTeGmA8KXtwfU-4ztCw&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1124&bih=648

Mike
 

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Lots of pictures on that page Mike. Which one is yours?

Johnny will get this stock for the 870 this year. Felt good at Gander and they claim it works for lefties. 3200 stock is done. Mach One could use some tuning, but I need a 'junk' stock to start with. The wood on my original stock is too nice. You caused me to get the guns out and start shouldering. It's time.


 

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Joe probably none of them on that page are mine, but most of them are based on my design, made by Altamont, distributed by Talo for Ruger! Wow...that was a mouth full.

If I get time after while, I will photograph the original. This design is a very copied design. I even had a company in England cold mail me some "prototypes" of a "new" design once and wanted to know if I could product them! They were a near copy of the Barracuda!

I know that most trap shooters prefer the mundane ;) guns, but I for one am glad you are following, no, breaking this path into the future!

My wife is on hospice or I would offer to help you now. At this time, I just can't.

Mike
 

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I understand.

My problem is I want a pistol grip out to the right perpendicalar to the face, so the trigger has to be over there too, forcing me to tip the H&R on it's side. See end view above. Since my sighting picture is through a scope, that's not a problem, but the hump that comes down to the stock, around the hammer area, caused the gun go kick back into my face when I laid it on it's side. They just don't make 'em like I want. I'm afraid even you can't help me. It's the trigger/bbl orientation that would have to change.

There are a couple other guys on here who've make their own setups. Maybe they'll post their pictures too.
 

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This is the Kuhner I like the best. Have a spare 1187 with a monte carlo stock. With an add-on comb, my EOTech could be mounted on it. Been curious how it would work for aerial targets. Too many other projects right now, though.
 

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Interesting stock concept, but I'd prefer a flat comb as well, not a dished one.

Whatever you do, don't build one using the Rem 597. What a jamming POS. Boyds makes this stock design for a 10-22. Vastly superior to the 597.
 

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I found this to be a pretty poorly fitting stock for me. I can't crane my neck far enough forward, especially when sitting, so the sharp edge at the back of the monte carlo digs into my cheek, and hoo boy you don't want to touch it off that way. It's also too long to get proper eye relief with some scopes on the cantilever base. Make sure you can get proper eye relief standing and sitting.
 

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Nice stuff Joe. Sooner or later, you will profoundly change the way our guns look. I;m not sure if that's good or not;-)
 

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Joe:

The pic of the Mach One with a "traditional" stock (black lines) was that what the original M1 stock was before the thumbhole conversion...?!

Jay
 

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Brian, Will be using that stock for clays, not a scoped gun. Ordered it yesterday - we'll see. The one I shouldered at Gander felt perfect. Would fit on the Rem 57 autoloader as well. Maybe I'll get back to my Holosight with the 870 and give Johnny the auto. I'd need a strong AR type stock that can have weight added in some way. Know of any?

If you do try aerial targets I'd suggest raising the scope an inch above the bbl for a nice clear view down to the trap house. Very few have ever expienced this. It solves my problem of my off eye trying to take over. The theory is - with a bbl in the way my non-dominant eye tries to help out and doesn't give up after the target is in full view. As you know, seeing with the off eye is a loss for sure.

Jay, no that stock, or one just like it, probably with better wood, is what I still have in my basement. The one I used as a base for the thumbhole was...I don't remember. I'm looking to get another second hand stock and start over. After my 3200 work, which fits better than anything I've ever touched with a file or stuck bondo to, I'd like to try again.

Mike, Boyd's SS Evolution link shown above. Looks like Altamont got out of the rifle stock business as 'handgun grips' is all that is active on their website (altamontco.com). Googled 'Talo for Ruger' and got this nice picture. Looks like a real shooter. With that target bbl it looks like a 12 ga.





I like this comb better. Needs to be parallel to the bore.

You've had quite an effect in the marketplace!
 

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Mike,

I've tried to answer some questions through the years. Can a shoulder level bbl work? How about cheek level? And this question is a bit more involved:

I practice eye hold on a moving target without a gun. Eyes on, swing through with the hands, fire. Yes, my kids make fun of me, but the picture above, from the business end, shows the concept. That's really where I'm at now. A trigger 90 degrees from the sight plane is the problem - nobody makes it. Triggers are always directly opposite the sight plane. It'd have to be a real experimental effort. I gave up on the fore end handle because it was tiring. The trigger hand worked but I didn't shoot it enough to really test it well. And everything is related - weight, length, how it fits at the shoulder, etc.

Most guys want a gun that fits so they can get to it. I can't say that I disagree.

Joe
 

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Joe, actually Altamont got into the rifle stock business, and just never spent any time on the web site. The owner is a good friend of mine. They do no direct sales of rifle stocks. Whatever effect I have had in the market, is directly related to my God given gift and nothing else!

I remember when I was maybe in my late teens or early twentys reading an article in one of the hunting mags about a guy that built Rem bolt gun for varmits that was as wild as anything I have ever seen. It was inside a vented tube, and designed with a top of the shoulder pad as well as one for the front of the shoulder. The gun was held like an old bazooka with a forward trigger and second forward vertical pistol grip. Unlike your design, both these grips were vertical. I am assuming somthing like this is what you mean by "shoulder level bbl"?

I sent you a pm with my private contact info.

Mike
 

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Yes, just on top of the shoulder, or, preferably, in front of so the recoil would come straight back. Turned out to be impractical because you have to come up so high with everything else, keeping it tight and together was a constant problem. And it looked too wierd.
 

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Joe, AR15 A2 buttstocks have a hollow compartment under a trap door, intended to hold cleaning tools, etc. However, Bushmaster (and others) sell a lead weight shaped to fit that cavity. It weighs 3.62 lbs, and can be trimmed to lessen the weight. Bushmaster P/N 9349119SW $21.50. It also has a rubber pad so it will stay tight and not rattle.
 
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