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Manasquan, NJ --(Ammoland.com)- Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used.

The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.

Multiple credible scientific studies going back more then a decade, as well as internal documents from certain pharmaceutical companies that suppressed the information show that SSRI drugs ( Selective Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitors ) have well known, but unreported side effects, including but not limited to suicide and other violent behavior. One need only Google relevant key words or phrases to see for themselves. www.ssristories.com is one popular site that has documented over 4500 “ Mainstream Media “ reported cases from around the World of aberrant or violent behavior by those taking these powerful drugs.

The following list of mass shooting perpetrators and the drugs they were taking or had been taking shortly before their horrific actions was compiled and published to Facebook by John Noveske, founder and owner of Noveske Rifleworks just days before he was mysteriously killed in a single car accident. Is there a link between Noveske’s death and his “outting” of information numerous disparate parties would prefer to suppress, for a variety of reasons ?

I leave that to the individual readers to decide. But there is most certainly a documented history of people who “knew to much” or were considered a “threat” dying under extraordinarily suspicious circumstances.

From Katherine Smith, a Tennessee DMV worker who was somehow involved with several 9/11 hijackers obtaining Tennessee Drivers Licenses, and was later found burned to death in her car, to Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Gary Webb, who exposed a CIA Operation in the 80's that resulted in the flooding of LA Streets with crack cocaine and was later found dead from two gunshot wounds to the head, but was officially ruled as a “suicide“, to Frank Olson, a senior research micro biologist who was working on the CIA’s mind control research program MKULTRA.

After Olson expressed his desire to leave the program, he was with a CIA agent in a New York hotel room, and is alleged to have committed “suicide” by throwing himself off the tenth floor balcony. In 1994, Olson’s sons were successful in their efforts to have their fathers body exhumed and re examined in a second autopsy by James Starrs, Professor of Law and Forensic science at the National Law Center at George Washington University. Starr’s team concluded that the blunt force trauma to the head and injury to the chest had not occurred during the fall but most likely in the room before the fall. The evidence was called “rankly and starkly suggestive of homicide.” Based on his findings, in 1996 the Manhattan District Attorney opened a homicide investigation into Olson’s death, but was unable to find enough evidence to bring charges.

As I said, I leave it to the individual readers to make up their own minds if Noveske suffered a similar fate. On to the list of mass shooters and the stark link to psychotropic drugs.

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,

(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)
Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

Asa **** from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show **** was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
New York high school.

Missing from list… 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds….

What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21…… killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az

What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24….. killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado

What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or

What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct

Those focusing on further firearms bans or magazine restrictions are clearly focusing on the wrong issue and asking the wrong questions, either as a deliberate attempt to hide these links, or out of complete and utter ignorance.

Don’t let them! Force our elected “representatives” and the media to cast a harsh spotlight on this issue. Don’t stop hounding them until they do.

About Dan Roberts

Dan Roberts is a grassroots supporter of gun rights that has chosen AmmoLand Shooting Sports News as the perfect outlet for his frank, ‘Jersey Attitude’ filled articles on Guns and Gun Owner Rights.As a resident of the oppressive state of New Jersey he is well placed to be able to discuss the abuses of government against our inalienable rights to keep and bear arms as he writes from deep behind NJ’s Anti-Gun iron curtain. Read more from Dan Roberts or email him at [email protected] You can also find him on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/dan.roberts.18

http://www.ammoland.com/2013/04/every-mass-shooting-in-the-last-20-years-shares-psychotropic-drugs/#axzz2nfVWRYL9
 

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Wow, interesting facts. I think so much of our society is over medicated. It is like all of these kids they put on Ridalin(sp?) as a blanket cure for everything. I'm sure some need it or a form of it, but a blanket cure for some of these problems is overkill(pardon the pun). JMHO.
 

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"Perhaps with a drug prescription to prevent or suppressing a disorder should come a ban to ownership, access or possession of guns?"

You can't be serious Rick!

We all know what Adderall, and Ritalin make a person do. I know of at least one person that would not have been allowed to shoot someone, because they would not have been allowed a CCW permit.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
This is where the issue gets thorny. A prescription in and of itself is not enough to have someone declared mentally incompetent. They must be adjudicated in a court of law.

What we don't want is to see law-abiding gun owners wind up being denied their rights because a bureaucrat decided Ritalin use in the past means no guns for life.

There is no simple answer for this. It's going to take careful, methodical work to accomplish. Something the anti-gun liberals know nothing about.
 

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Don't forget the political leanings of these people either.
 

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No Brian; the common denominator is mental illness.
Some opinions:

1. Our society is profoundly over-diagnosed and over-medicated, esp. young adults. DSM-V was recently released and each version has added more and more diagnoses; now to included Autism Spectrum Disorder. Where there is a diagnosis, there is a drug company promoting treatment and someone demanding treatment - for themselves or their child (and disability payments).

2. The incidence of ASD and ADHD has exploded, and it's not just over-diagnosis. I am of the opinion it is related to a genetic predisposition PLUS something (or multiple somethings) that we are putting in our environment that act as triggers.

3. People with mental illness receive drugs; some help enormously; all have potential side effects; and treatment MUST be tailored to the individual by a physician properly trained and experienced - not by a 'provider' using a template of standard treatment.

4. Primary care physicians provide most of the Rxs in this country for psychotropic drugs, are already overwhelmed with the complexity and volume of patients, and many are not adequately educated in the use and side effects of these drugs. And things are going to get much worse with our forced move to a One Payer System and primary care by non-physicians.

5. SSRIs have saved lives. The side effects of SSRIs may very well have contributed to the loss of life. That does not mean SSRIs should be removed from the market, but that they must be used appropriately and with close follow up.

6. People with mental illness tend to also use illicit drugs and/or alcohol, which worsens the mental illness. Some use their disability payments to purchase meth or crack.

7. 'Shell-shock' (PTSD) vets of WWII sadly frequently self-medicated with alcohol, and many died as a result. Clearly the capacity of the VA system today to treat PTSD and traumatic brain injury is not adequate.

8. There are evil people in this world. I believe things are getting much worse.
 

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Brian,

Aren't you the guy who said on a earlier thread:

"" I'm not responsible for what others do with guns I've sold or traded off."

Perhaps you are rethinking your earlier position. Let us know.

You also haven't been willing to tell us who you do trust to decide that an individual should not be allowed to have guns. And, if they already have guns, how are those guns removed from their possession.


Rick,

You asked, "do we want mentaliy ill people to have access guns?" No, but we are willing to have a legal system that allows us to sell guns to them. Please note my comments to Brian above.

As gun owners we have crafted guns laws with the most liberal view of who should be able to legally have guns. Inevitably that has a high societal cost, but as gun owners many of us seem to believe that taking away an individuals right to have a gun supersedes almost all other issues.

i am assuming that your question about mentally ill people having access to guns was rhetorical and you would like to eliminate their access. How do propose to prevent that from happening?
 

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"The overwhelming evidence points to the single largest common factor in all these incidents is the fact that all the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before committing their crimes." I disagree. I say the single largest common factor is all of these people sought help for some sort of psychiatric condition. I would say that the overwhelming majority of people taking these drugs don't do anything criminal.

I would like to know the statistics of violent behavior when help was not sought, when help was sought but drugs not prescribed, and when drugs were prescribed. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that latter 2 will be about the same. I think the mistrust of drug companies has a lot to do with current suspicions about psych drugs and violence.

The fact is there are some people that are not going to be helped from committing horrible crimes. Another fact is some people could have been stopped by people close to them and were not. A free country is never going to be %100 percent safe from mental defectives.


Darr
 

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Drew, quote: <i>"4. Primary care physicians provide most of the Rxs in this country for psychotropic drugs, are already overwhelmed with the complexity and volume of patients, and many are not adequately educated in the use and side effects of these drugs. And things are going to get much worse with our forced move to a One Payer System and primary care by non-physicians."</i>

Drew, while mental illness is indeed the root cause, your statement number 4 backs up the article asserting there is a problem with drugs too. I predict more attacks with guns or knives or whatever because of this common problem.

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Traders, quote: <i>"Brian,

Aren't you the guy who said on a earlier thread:

"" I'm not responsible for what others do with guns I've sold or traded off.""</i>

Are you responsible if a guy you sold your old car to gets drunk and runs over children in a crosswalk?
 

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Brian,

You asked, "Are you responsible if a guy you sold your old car to gets drunk and runs over children in a crosswalk? This was in response to your comments that you have no responsibility "for what others do with guns I've sold or traded off."

Sure if I sold him the car while he was drunk or I had any way of knowing that he was going to get drunk and drive. I said in an earlier post, when I sell a gun it either goes to someone I know well or it goes through an FFL.

Using your analogy and opinion, you believe you would not be responsible if you sold a drunk a car and he ran over children in a crosswalk. At least under those circumstances, you would have the opportunity to explain the circumstances to a judge.

Darr,

You are being too reasonable.

It interesting to note that while other developed countries probably have as many crazies per capita as we do, we seem to have cornered the market on unjustified gun violence.
 

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"We seem to have cornered the market on unjustified gun violence."

Not by a long shot. I'm thinking there is not a lot of SSRI use in any of those places. And BTW I've been in Tegucigalpa, San Pedro Sula, and 1-2 times/yr in Guatemala City.

The U.S. does indeed have far more gun violence than other DEVELOPED nations; Europe, Canada, India and Australia. SSRI use in Europe is much less than the U.S., and much, much less in Canada, esp. for children and adolescents.
 

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Traders, quote: <i>"Using your analogy and opinion, you believe you would not be responsible if you sold a drunk a car and he ran over children in a crosswalk."</i>

Bingo.

Your problem is you cite a reply from another post, cite it, and ask if I've changed my mind. Then after I reply you start adding on all sorts of conditional "what if's".

So no, if a drunk shows up at my house I would not sell him my car or gun.

But if someone sober shows up and buys them, and gets drunk later, that is not my responsibility.

If you want a more concise answer, ask a more concise question.
 

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Drew Hause,

You probably didn't notice that in my comment about the level of gun violence in the US:


'It interesting to note that while other developed countries probably have as many crazies per capita as we do, we seem to have cornered the market on unjustified gun violence."

I was careful to indicate that I was comparing the US to other developed countries. It is certainly true that there is more use of Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) in the US and I think that is certainly a problem. None the less, my guess is, although I am not willing to do the research, that even if you removed the data of gun violence by people on these drugs, the US would still have the lead in developed country gun violence.

Brian,

You probably forgot that you were the one who added a "what if" as in:

"Are you responsible if a guy you sold your old car to gets drunk and runs over children in a crosswalk?"

I answered. You just don't like the answer because you won't back down on you belief and in fact legal right to "sell a gun to whomever you want to and have no responsibility for what they might do with it.."

So, if you want to be more "concise" in your statement or qualify it in some way, please do. I will be very interested in what you have to say.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Whatever. I stand by my original statement. I am not responsible for what someone else does with a gun (or any other property) that I sell.
 

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Remember guys, the original topic of the thread was "Mass Shootings."

Traders is a Utopian. He doesn't want to attack the specific, realistic, attainable goal of targeting one type of shooting, engaged in by a narrow type of perpetrator, and focusing on eliminating it with readily implementable measures. He wants to "Boil the Ocean." He wants a US Society with No Gun Deaths, a goal which must surely involve social re-organization on a huge scale, but he will not list the bullet points of what policy proposals he thinks should be taken to achieve it - either because he cannot articulate them, or because he would rather critique your positions than submit his to scrutiny.

You're all wasting your time with it.
 

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Not to be a smartass, but couldn't the real correlation be that each one of these people was just bat shit crazy? I'm sure that we are all in agreement that there are some less than savory individuals in our midst, and some of them have psychological issues. Other than in cases of drug abuse, people are not prescribed drugs for no reason. So would it be safe to come to the conclusion that the bat shit crazy just got the best of them on that given day?
 

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Yes trapper, I affirmed your statement here "The U.S. does indeed have far more gun violence than other DEVELOPED nations". My point is that outside of Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and North America (and possibly Japan and South Korea), the world is a terrible place. Why could that be?

magnumshot: your humble opinion is incorrect. SSRI use is associated with a lower incidence of suicide. TCA are more toxic in high doses and are therefore a more effective means of suicide. SOME patients do, however, have suicidal/violent feelings in response to SSRIs.

Please consider that OUR children have autism spectrum disorder, OUR wives suffer from post-partum depression, those WE love fight bipolar disorder. We didn't have to take a pill in medical school that removed our ability to think critically. And like everyone else, we would do anything to help those we love.

As I said before, our society is profoundly over diagnosed and over treated with psychotropic meds; while at the same time many with serious psychiatric disorders have no access to expert care or effective treatment. And many avoid treatment because they prefer crack or meth, and life on the street.

The good news if that very soon you will not be forced to submit to guinea pigness since there won't be any docs anyway. Good luck.
 

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"Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used."

I would say the one thing they have most in common is the perpetrators are males.
 
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