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I just read in September's Trap and Field in ATA Rulebook reminder that:

"An exception to the above paragraph (that is....must take runner-up award in category rather than class) occurs when the category award at stake is an All-American points pin ONLY. In that case, a shooter may win both a pin and a place (runner-up or lower) class or yardage-group trophy."

If that is correct, it sure addresses a sore point I brought up in a previous thread. Glad they woke up and corrected a shortcoming to one of their directives. Now they have to go another step further and readjust their age limits for the Vet category to 65-74 rather than the narrow 65-69. Sub-Vet has a 10 year span...why not Vet. Senior Vet should be 75 to infinity. I've already written to my Directors (even my buddy Neil) about this a number of times so don't come down hard on me for not following protocol. Good going ATA.
 

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It seems simpler the way NSSA does it, having age groups be Concurrents, and run concurrently to open competition. For example you could win C class, and win Veteran at the same time. C class would pay money, where winning veteran would earn All American points.
 

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Yeah, well. Class trophy AND category trophy earn AA points in ATA. That's why one or the other and not both.

You skeeters and sporties can have.your own set of rules. PITA can have their rules. When skeeters and sporties start running ATA rules then you guys can make valuable, meaningful, comments on ATA rules. Until then you just make fools of yourselves.
 

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Yeah, well. Class trophy AND category trophy earn AA points in ATA. That's why one or the other and not both.

You skeeters and sporties can have.your own set of rules. PITA can have their rules. When skeeters and sporties start running ATA rules then you guys can make valuable, meaningful, comments on ATA rules. Until then you just make fools of yourselves.
For us OLD Geezers, the PITA has a category for older than "75"-----it's called "ELDER"---That means you are "ELDER THAN DIRT"
 

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For us OLD Geezers, the PITA has a category for older than "75"-----it's called "ELDER"---That means you are "ELDER THAN DIRT"
Older'n dirt and twice as Dusty? I know a few folk like that.

Five-year Senior Category made me wonder too but until folks can convince their delegate, and he/she can convince a majority of the other delegates, it will remain a five-year category in ATA.
 
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I just read in September's Trap and Field in ATA Rulebook reminder that:

"An exception to the above paragraph (that is....must take runner-up award in category rather than class) occurs when the category award at stake is an All-American points pin ONLY. In that case, a shooter may win both a pin and a place (runner-up or lower) class or yardage-group trophy."

If that is correct, it sure addresses a sore point I brought up in a previous thread. Glad they woke up and corrected a shortcoming to one of their directives.
That only applies in ATA Zone shoots and Satellite Grands.

State/provincial shoots and Other Major shoots where All American points are awarded do not have any "pin only" awards. All of their awards are considered trophies, even if the trophy is a pin.

Someone who wins a "points pin" in their category offered by a State/Provinsional Association has won a trophy (the pin) and is not eligible for place, class, or yardage group awards.


The rule is that in order to get All American points, you need to win a trophy. The exception to the rule occurs at ATA Zone and Satellite Grands, where to keep expenses down, and still offer points, pins are offered without the necessity of offering a trophy.

Rule Book, Page 56:

Trophy Point Values

. . . Trophy points are not awarded unless the official shoot program specifies where trophies are to be awarded in each qualifying event. (The exception is All American Points Pins awards at Satellite Grand's (sic) and ATA Zone tournaments.) . . .

The confusion comes when states/provincial associations give "pins" as the trophy. This is done because a pin is an inexpensive trophy. But these pins are not the pins referred to in the quote above; they are a trophy, thus making the winner of such an award ineligible for a class, place, or yardage group trophy.

Shoot management could give any type of "trophy:" a flashlight, a box of shells, a patch, anything.

The reason shoot management at many point shoots has started to offer "pins" for category runner-up and 3rd is to attract category shooters who are pursuing All American team placement. Inexpensive "trophies" allow shoot management to offer more point opportunities.

These "points" trophies, in my opinion, should not be shot off. In the case of ties, the ties should be resolved by some non-shoot off method: coin flip, reverse score, wrestling, etc. At ATA Zone shoots, ties for "points only" awards are resolved by reverse score.

If shoot management offers a substantial trophy for r/u and/or 3rd, then a shoot off would be appropriate.

But shooting off for a "token" trophy that exists only to allow the recipient to get AA points should not happen. Again, that's my opinion.

But I would hope that any shoot management that employs the use of inexpensive "token" trophies to allow points to be awarded would explain to the shooters what the purpose of those "trophies" is and not require shoot offs for them.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
V10....Drats! And I thought the ATA wised up to the point where they would allow the shooter a choice of the stupid pin or class/yardage trophy. Guess I was wrong.....they have their heads stuck in the sand to their shoulders and won't correct an obvious deficiency. Too much to ask to get it right I reckon.
 

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V10....Drats! And I thought the ATA wised up to the point where they would allow the shooter a choice of the stupid pin or class/yardage trophy. Guess I was wrong.....they have their heads stuck in the sand to their shoulders and won't correct an obvious deficiency. Too much to ask to get it right I reckon.
You have FULL control of the 'stupid pin' or the class/yardage trophy. You declare category you shoot for the 'stupid pin'. No category? Class/yardage trophy. Simple.
 

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Yeah, well. Class trophy AND category trophy earn AA points in ATA. That's why one or the other and not both.

You skeeters and sporties can have.your own set of rules. PITA can have their rules. When skeeters and sporties start running ATA rules then you guys can make valuable, meaningful, comments on ATA rules. Until then you just make fools of yourselves.
Actually, both Class and Concurrents earn AA points in NSSA as well. Perhaps you are the one looking like a fool!
 

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Eish. I thought I understood. Now I understand that I didn't understand in the first place...
 

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Actually, both Class and Concurrents earn AA points in NSSA as well. Perhaps you are the one looking like a fool!
Nope. ATA doesn't HAVE concurrents. You get no bread with one meatball.
 
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ATA TROPHIES The following rules apply to every event at any tournament which includes

ATA trophies and/or All American points on any event: 1. Only one (1) trophy shall be awarded to any one (1) person in any separate event. This means a contestant may not win both special category trophy and champion, runner-up/place, class, or yardage trophy in the same event. -----I was very glad when this rule was instituted and I certainly agree with the rule as written . I think the "pin" thing threw a Fly in the Butter Milk!
 
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