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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
The meeting Wednesday night was businesslike as usual. The situation with the State was discussed. Meetings with the local senator, representative, and multiple IDNR representatives including the boss have given the ATA confidence that we will be having the Grand American at the WSRC long into the future.

The ATA made 1.1 million in fiscal 2014. Most came from investments; the second largest contributor was the 2014 Grand American. Day-to-day operations were about a wash, expenses balancing income, as has been the case, and intention, for the last 20 years.

The number of shooters required for a "high score" half-yard punch was returned to what it had been for a long time, most recently 2012, fifteen. In 2013-2015 it had been 25 and only 25% of shoots have that many handicap participants and the shooters who want to move back were finding it hard to find enough shoots with a chance to get the yardage they were looking for. The change will result in about an additional thousand shoots (0f 5850 total) where there will be enough shooters for the high-score half-yard.

Delegate Terry Dean of Kentucky - who sometimes contributes here - is the newly-elected vice-president.

Longer yardage and shell-speed changes were discussed in the zone meetings but were not brought up at the Annual, where it counts. The three-hole was not mentioned, as it has not been for 20 years.

It was a productive, relatively short, and informative meeting to anyone who cared to drop by. There were but a handful of us gawkers which I take to mean that few members who actually shoot are much worried about the way the ATA is being lead and governed.

N1H1
 

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Additionally:

1) A proposed rule change to essentially bifurcate the category "fall back" rule was defeated 9 to 39. This proposal was to have the current category "fall back" rule apply only to Satellite Grands and the Grand American, while allowing other shoots where ATA trophies are provided (such as State shoots) to specify some other fall back method as long as the method was published in the shoot program.

2) A By-law change was approved by acclamation adding New Zealand to the Western Zone (Welcome Kiwis!)

3) A By-law change was approved by acclamation that codifies the responsibilities of the Accountable Plan Committee. This is the committee that reviews EC/CHC expenses.

4) A By-law change to change the name of the Association failed for lack of a motion. This change would have resulted in an estimated expense of approximately $433,000 to change signage, logos, awards, pins, anything that has "ATA" on it. It was felt that this was a change with no benefit to the association.
 

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Additionally:

1) A proposed rule change to essentially bifurcate the category "fall back" rule was defeated 9 to 39. This proposal was to have the current category "fall back" rule apply only to Satellite Grands and the Grand American, while allowing other shoots where ATA trophies are provided (such as State shoots) to specify some other fall back method as long as the method was published in the shoot program.

2) A By-law change was approved by acclamation adding New Zealand to the Western Zone (Welcome Kiwis!)

3) A By-law change was approved by acclamation that codifies the responsibilities of the Accountable Plan Committee. This is the committee that reviews EC/CHC expenses.

4) A By-law change to change the name of the Association failed for lack of a motion. This change would have resulted in an estimated expense of approximately $433,000 to change signage, logos, awards, pins, anything that has "ATA" on it. It was felt that this was a change with no benefit to the association.

The 15 person requirement for a punch, is a great change.

Phil Berkowitz
 

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Another stupid rule change returning the yardage requirement back to 15 shooters. That only penalizes the small clubs and the 75% of their shooters who only want yardage at the bigger shoots for a few $$$$$. Another nail in the small clubs coffin and another step backward with none forward. Nero fiddled while Rome burned-again!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
The original proposal (at the 2012 meeting) had been to raise the minimum to 50 and that was reduced to 25 by the BOD. They did not see any increase in interest in shooting handicap as a result of the change and so reverted back to the old standard by a vote of about 17/35 (as I remember but did not write down. But V10 will tell us exactly.)

I corrected a typo above; the number of handicap events annually is about 5850, not the smaller number I first posted. I regret the error.

An opinion here: I think the BOD is realistic enough to know that shooters who do not want yardage at a small shoot are going to manage to make that happen anyway. So the change helps those who want yardage with no actual damage to anyone.

Neil
 

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Change the name of the association to what?
 

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V10

Thanks.
 

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Actually, falling back to 15 helps small clubs because the guys whose goal is to shoot better and grow in their skills as evidenced by their yardage attained will travel to the small clubs where there may only be about 20 participants. The yardage managers who think they are going to show up at the big shoots and win because they are "managing" to stay at the 22 will continue to stay there because in my experience most of them can't shoot a good score from their yardage anyway. Mostly, it is their self excuse for not being able to move back to the 27.
 

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After the "one time only-two yard reduction" (cough), many quit shooting caps at the small clubs, so as to protect their new found shorter yardage positions, waiting for the larger shoots, so that they could clean up on $ or trophys.

This most definitely hurt the small clubs.
 

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The thing that hurts small clubs is the mismanagement or lack of management that causes them to remain small, causing them to have small turnouts like my club who had only 7 shooters their last ATA shoot, while the club less than 5 miles away had several hundred a week later.
 
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So an 85 Handicap winning score at a 15 shooter event will save the ATA and promote more Handicap shooting? All that does is encourage sandbagging and drive away more shooters who already dropped the small club shoots. Dumb and dumber!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Here's how it works, tcm. Say you are an outright sandbagger intent on skinning your friends and neighbors for chump change at a small local shoot, say one of the 4340 shoots in 2013 with 24 or fewer handicap entries, You can shoot a 95 because you are a very good shot, (and pretty close to the trap as well, of course), better than anyone there, really. With your winnings you can order that whole full meal deal instead of just the Big Mac which is all you can usually afford. The rule change means that there are 911 fewer shoots where you can do that to your fellow sportsmen and women.

N1H1
 

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Guess I better go to my club that has those turnouts of 7-8 people. I can shoot my 88-90 scores and end up on the 27 in 6 months. Then I will be a big dog, taking home all that money everybody is talking about. Why didn't I think of that before?
 

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Guess I better go to my club that has those turnouts of 7-8 people. I can shoot my 88-90 scores and end up on the 27 in 6 months. Then I will be a big dog, taking home all that money everybody is talking about. Why didn't I think of that before?
Have everyone bring a friend, needs to be 15 shooters for a punch.
 

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Here's how it works, tcm. Say you are an outright sandbagger intent on skinning your friends and neighbors for chump change at a small local shoot, say one of the 4340 shoots in 2013 with 24 or fewer handicap entries, You can shoot a 95 because you are a very good shot, (and pretty close to the trap as well, of course), better than anyone there, really. With your winnings you can order that whole full meal deal instead of just the Big Mac which is all you can usually afford. The rule change means that there are 911 fewer shoots where you can do that to your fellow sportsmen and women.

N1H1
Yup, and more chances for for today's fish to get a 1/2 yard for his 85 and move ever closer to obscurity.

My understanding is the move was precipitated by the MS delegates proposal. That's a state with 70 active ATA Handicap shooters with only 22 registering 1,000 Handicap targets or more. Looks like plenty of constructive thought went into that acceptance to the detriment of all the US smaller trap clubs!!
 

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Theloudstone,

They will be there, because when others see this, they will show up, thinking the same thing. Heck we might even end up with 20-21 shooters because of this.
 
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