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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With some of the bigger shoots not having target requirements, does that mean all those awesome shooters that don't shoot ATA will come out of the woodwork to shoot in D class?

I would think, even without using target minimums, when someone classifies, they are still going to be put where their previous averages put them, well except for all those unknown to everybody meat and game shooters.
 

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They will go by 2019 avg and any tgts shot in 2020 and known ability. Remember those shooters will have to use ATA legal shells. Doubt if any of those guys will bother to join the ATA. New shooters should still penalized.
 

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Known ability, just like always, and if the just join the ATA they are penalized anyway unless they shoot targets only, then it doesn't matter how good they are, they are not competing.

This shouldn't even be a question, as it is already covered in the rules.
 

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Guarantee you if they do have any big shoots this year there will be several shooters trying to take advantage of the rules any way they can to try and cheat an honest shooter and benefit themselves.
That being said it happens every year anyway virus or no virus.
 

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I doubt there will be any exceptions to waiving target requirements. They will either be waived or they won’t. You stated ‘it’s covered in the rules’. Can you cite the rule that addresses target requirements at shoots.
Referencing known ability and the statement about D shooters showing up out of the woodwork. Has no bearing as they will be penalized IF the classification desk does their job properly. Waiving target requirements has no real bearing either, as they can just look at the last couple years, as they are supposed to do anyway.

C. CLASSIFICATION 1. For 16-yard targets and Doubles, shooters should be placed in three (3) or more classes, according to their established average and/or known ability. A new shooter may be assigned to any class in 16-yards and Doubles events, at the discretion of classification personnel until the shooter establishes his/her known ability. a. To arrive at known ability the following should be taken into consideration as far as such information is or can be made available:    (1) Official registered targets (abnormally low scores should be disregarded). Averages of all registered shooters are compiled and published annually. (2) Non-registered scores including Shoot-off scores, non registered events, practice scores, etc. (3) Any other information bearing on a shooter’s ability to shoot and break targets
 

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I've never understood the worry about this. I'm there to break every target I can regardless of my class or that of the other competitors. There will always be dishonest people or cheaters or some rule that unduly works to the advantage of the undeserving. I can't control that. I can only control my performance. A trophy or trinket or worry about a shooter not being classed properly is the least of my worries.
 

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Sadly, all shoots themselves might just be waived, so I think this discussion is pertinent but premature. Show me a shoot in the next 30 days that is not cancelled, and I will pay attention. However, just for the sake of discussion, it would be easy enough to just assign everyone their 2018/2019 class and yardage that did meet target minimums. And anyone who did not have a 2018/2019 class or yardage could just be treated like a new shooter under the regular shoot program. None of this would be an injustice, and if you think it would, don't attend. If it really bothers you, demand an asterisk be placed on the shoot results.
 
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Guessers, yes, you’ve citied the classification rule which contains ‘known ability’ but this rule does not address ‘penalty’ classifications, whether class bumps or minimum yardage, due to not meeting target requirements. My point is, there is no such rule in the rule book. This is a shoot management decision and is stated in the shoot program.

I think you will see most state shoots, if held this year, waive minimum target requirements.

I hope it’s an issue we can all argue/discuss because that would mean there are shoots happening.
 

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Always best to know the rules

. For16-yardtargetsandDoubles,shootersshouldbeplacedinthree(3) or more classes, according to their established average and/or known ability. A new shooter may be assigned to any class in 16-yards and Doubles events, at the discretion of classification personnel until the shooter establishes his/her known ability.

C. HANDICAP YARDAGE ASSIGNMENT
A shooter will be handicapped between 19 and 27 yards and at the highest yardage punched on his/her Average Card, unless he/she is required to shoot penalty yardage.
1. All new female shooters AND any new male shooter, who has not reached his 15th birthday, shall be assigned a starting handicap of 19.0 yards. Any subsequent yardage changes will be by earn or review.
2. All new male shooters, that have reached their 15th birthday, shall be assigned a starting yardage of 20.0 yards. Any subsequent yardage changes will be by earn or review.

D. PENALTY CLASSIFICATION
Shoot Management may establish penalty classification for 16- yard targets and Doubles, if target requirements are printed in the program.

Shoot Management may establish penalty yardage based on numbers of registered targets if those target requirements are printed in the program. In no event shall any shooter be assigned a handicap of less than their current yardage. Penalty Yardage must be posted at the Club prior to entry of any Handicap Event it not printed in the program. Penalty yardage shall not exceed 25 yards, or current yardage, whichever is greater.

Absent of target requirements and penalty yardage if requirements are not met, shooters must shoot from their assigned yardage. As you can see there is no set classification for 16 and doubles.

If we have shoots this summer and target requirements are waived that would also mean no penalty will be assessed.
 

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Most seem to think using using the 2019 target year averages would be a good way to classify. That would stand to reason. Anybody who does not have an average for the 2019 year OR has "insufficient" targets to meet minimums in THAT year would most likely be penalized within the guide lines of any other large shoot.
 

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" marbax " , now you have answer # 13 . I think ,the shooters who come out off the woodwork might get lucky once or twice at best ,but most of them do not shoot 100 target meat or money shoots . On top of that someone will know somebody and they will cought with the pants down . All the shoots I've ever attended new shooters always ended up in B class or higher . That might not be in the rule book ,but shoot management can and will do that and for sure at larger shoots
 

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Anybody who does not have an average for the 2019 year OR has "insufficient" targets to meet minimums in THAT year would most likely be penalized within the guide lines of any other large shoot.
Slide Action, that is the point of this thread. Will there be target requirements at the big shoots? Ohio has already come out and stated they would not have minimum target requirements. That would mean everyone would be shooting their assigned handicap because no one would have "insufficient" targets. 16yd and Dbls is a little trickier as there is no set rule for new shooters. A brand new shooter could sign up for the HCP championship and shoot from the 20yd line.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Actually, there's been 14 answers, and only Tom Berry seems to get the question.

If shoot management waives target requirements, how then would they penalize anyone that didn't reach that number?

Also, I've heard for ten years how the target minimums was a major factor in attendance. So my point there is, lets see all these shooters show up, which I doubt.
 

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“New shooters should still penalized.”
I never understood the need to penalize a new shooter. What a great way of discouraging a new shooter from joining the ATA.
 

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“New shooters should still penalized.”
I never understood the need to penalize a new shooter. What a great way of discouraging a new shooter from joining the ATA.
All you have to do is shoot targets only till you get your numbers. Pretty simple. That is what I did with both 16's and handicap when I started.
 

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All you have to do is shoot targets only till you get your numbers. Pretty simple. That is what I did with both 16's and handicap when I started.
That is my point while I have never been a favor of giving new shooters extra long Handicap yardage penalties or having somebody shoot from 3 classes higher, I have no problem with a "Reasonable" number of targets before you are classed or Handicapped to your known ability. I started shooting registered birds in Ill. in 1973 When I was stationed there in the Air Force . Night meat shoots were quite common and there were LOTS of shooters who were shooting those meat shoots for cash or shooting informal leagues that could hold their own ANY DAY with the registered shooters. Letting them come in and shoot from 20 yards and put them in D class would never be a good idea !
 
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