[Sam Ogle]

This has been a good thread, discussing the real world problems of target presentations.
I ran a gun club for a few years (Yes; Jim Brown's club, and he is a great guy.)
We measured the fifty yard stakes to the inch. We sat the targets in exact accordance to the rule books. Yet, we still had folks protest, complain, and whine. They want higher targets. They claimed we were throwing targets at least 55 yards. They claimed we were throwing doubles "Outside the stakes," when the stakes are for the minimum width of targets, not maximum.
(Try explaining that to an old hardhead, and lots of luck.)
I once asked an old trapshooter why we didn't draw better crowds to our shoots, and he said "You don't throw good targets." Dang.........frustrating.
Once a shoot is underway, and someone says "Those targets are too low, please raise them" to a puller; the kid would go raise them.
As a person running a trap shoot, you would like to draw shooters. But, if you adhere to the rules in spite of complaints, you lose shooters.
Hap is dead right, but it's tough.
Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE

 

[Hap MecTweaks]

Mr. Ogle, thank you for your thoughts and input toward this discussion. How right you are saying it's tough to make a go of a club without any help from our own ATA on rule enforcements!!Your assessment is also spot on in regards to how target settings have changed over the years and (WHY)! Customers!!! Perfect target settings!! Higher scores being broken with amazing records being broken in what seems every year! Sure, equipment is better, the shooters dedicated to their goals and can afford the numbers have improved drastically!! Lets back up for a moment here. Are we assuming the shooters today are that much superior to the shooters were a mere 25 or so years back? Hold on a second, some of the greats were long time real competitors at that time also posting winning high scores also??? I talked with Ray Stafford concerning the 95-96 mandated 44 degree angles shot during that time. His averages during that time frame actually increased!! I asked him why and he said he paid much more attention to targets knowing he may get tougher angles and thrown longer! The greats in the game were good with tougher targets because of their ability to adapt.

How did we come to expect this so-called (perfect target syndrome) in the first place? To find the true answers we must rely on what our sports history says. Beginning in the very late 70s,early 80s, a few clubs began setting targets that were much easier to hit. (That was cheating the rules of the game) Some clubs followed suit while others didn't and that's what Mr. Ogle refers to above, re-setting targets to satisfy the customers! That, in order to survive! This brings us to the newest innovation of rule bending, setting targets with lots more face and here we are today with lots of members looking for perfection in target setting? There is no such thing as a perfect target in registered ATA competitions! There is however two entirely different presentations though. Legal and within the rules and ATAs guidelines for speeds and measurements, then there's the targets that can't come close to abiding by the current setting parameters, high with lots of face!! (This is actually cheating the settings rule again?)

In the very beginning of bending the rules, our leadership not only failed the members but our organization itself! Adopting a cheating practice as being best for the sport with less angle and speed was first, today allowing 2 entirely different target presentations to be registered targets! Where's the continuity of fairness in that practice not only to our membership but the club owners and operators themselves???? We can place blame on about anything for not growing the sport but we ourselves must shoulder the responsibility for not holding our leaderships feet to the fire when it comes to enforcing their own written rules of the game!! Allowing these practices to flourish is very confusing especially to new members and old. It hurts clubs, as mentioned by Mr.Ogle at Jim Browns club and everywhere ATA registered targets are shot!

Beginning in the early 80s, if I were hunting leaders and some of our officials flew up, I wouldn't take my B-B gun off safe! Enforce the rules you write or change them as you have done in the past, making targets even easier! Continuity across the country which it once was is all we ask and fairness to all!

Hap