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Target Presentations

7163 Views 81 Replies 20 Participants Last post by  Hap MecTweaks
With a Pat Trap--how can we show more 'Face" of the target during flight??As it is now the target shows little color and more of the black rim.The target appears as an "eye slit". Frustrating!!!!!!!!!
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Hi Bob:

I'll agree with you that the landscape in front of the trap affects our perception of the target.

As far as big shoots throwing higher targets, I won't argue with you guys about that since I don't travel much, but I do shoot at some satellite grands, my zone shoot etc. and I don't recall thinking to myself that the targets were extrordinarily high... well I guess the Zone was tough last year in the wind. I guess it just depends on where you are.

I don't like high targets, and I always thought it was the newer shooters that liked them high, not the better shooters. That's just my personal observation and may not hold true overall.

Shoot management doesn't have it easy, I think overall they try to do their best, and that is about all we can ask. Let's face it, you, Hap and myself could all be standing on the same post and each have a different opinion of the targets, and none of us would be wrong. Add to that the fact that many shooters really don't spend any time to understand what a legal target really is, or that setting targets to hit the T-Bar at 10 yrds doesn't mean targets on each field will look the same and you can see that management can get frustrated. Sometimes you have to forget about trying to be precise and just step back and look at them.
 

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Commenting on the fact that one shooter request to have the targets changed. If another shooter on my squad or not requests the targets to be raise I would quickly interject and have the scorer call over the club manager. If the target goes through the T-bar and clocks between 40-42 mph then tough luck pal, shoot the damn targets.

Just like 870 said because of landscape the presception of targets may look different from one person to the next. If the targets are legal shoot or get off my squad!!!

I honestly can't see how other shooters stand around and let a bully like that push his way around. Regardless of who he was.

Bryan
 

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Would flatter targets keep the handicap spread more realistic. Are flatter targets on average, tougher targets? How many more handicap shooters may get reductions if flatter targets were consistantly thrown? I would think it would affect doubles scores more than singles.

Many say our targets are too easy. Is that because many clubs throw high targets?
 

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Setterman higher targets mean more face, more face give the perception of a bigger target. That question can only be answered by the shooters. In most case each shooter has their own preference so I guess you could say it depends on who is saying the target need resetting.

Higher targets in Doubles stay in the air longer which would give the shoot an advantage.

Bob Lawless
 

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The ATA has clearly defined parameters for "legal target". Most of the problem lies in the rules which allow a "legal" target to be changed to ones own preference.


Eliminate that rule and the majority of the inconsistencies in the target presentation that most see will go away.


Jerry Hauser
 

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Bryan,

If the target (singles & hncp) clocks between 40-42 mph then it's not a legal target.

Bob,

IME, simply raising the doubles won't make them stay in the air longer......the only way to make 'em stay in the air longer is to crank up the spring.

John C. Saubak
 

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Roger, I agree that the smaller clubs and their ATA members set targets according to the rule book more so than those holding the majors. We must also remember how that more face practice "snuck" into the game? (A whole different subject)

The flatter the presentation of a clay target, the less area available for shot to strike! Each degree of upward tilt on the clay (more face) magnifies that breaking area drastically in size! That's not a presumption or a perception, it's a fact. Patterns at long range will benefit more with all the target face possible resulting in larger breaking area on that target.

Jerry H., isn't it the clubs catering to the wishes of shooters rather than following a written rule on adjusting target whims? The current application of the written rule toward settings could be more aptly called the yo-yo rule? Up and down, next preference?

Hap
 

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Bryan,

When the speed rule first was published as I recall it was "42mph..+/-.5mph". Then it was changed to "minimum 42mph". Currently I believe it's "42mph to 43mph". These numbers are of course as taken from behind the house or the 16 yd line.

John C. Saubak
 

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If you are taking the speed from the 16yd line you must use a high speed radar gun. From behind the house you use a low speed radar gun.

"simply raising the doubles won't make them stay in the air longer......the only way to make 'em stay in the air longer is to crank up the spring."

John if you throw doubles set legally and then raise them will they still go the legal distance or must you put more spring on them so they will?? If you do they will still be high and in the air longer.

Bob Lawless
 

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If the doubles targets are higher, it will take longer for them to reach the ground, and the shooter will have more time to get on the second bird, especially with a head wind. With legal targets and a tail wind, you'd better not be mess'n around with the second target.
 

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Bob,

I'm not 100% on this? That's why I wrote "IME".......but FWIW, if the doubles were set legally and then you raised them I think they'd fall shorter if you didn't put on more spring. Maybe they'd be in the air just as long (time-wise)? The spring is what gives the targets their momentum, if you spent more energy gaining elevation they'll have less energy left to go the distance.

John C. Saubak
 

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Exactly yet the morons that request a reset because the targets are to low never seem to think about that or they aren't capable of thinking of it.

But the longer it take to go up the more time they have to get to the second target to break it. One reason why they don't like flatter targets. The other is most can't tell legal from illegal.

Bob Lawless
 

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If you've got a wind from behind and the second target's in the grass before you can get to it, personally I'd rather see 'em crank up the spring to keep 'em up than just raise the angle. Of course with either......you eventually run up against the rulebook. Can anybody explain to me WHY the rule spec's 3mph slower for doubles than the speed for singles? Seems to me we'd be able to throw better (legal) doubles if we could throw 'em at least the same speed as singles??

John C. Saubak
 

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Changing rules usually have some unheard of consequences down the road under differing circumstances that were given no thought when changed. Slowing down the doubles makes for higher scores on bluebird days. When it's not such a day, we allow shooters to fiddle and screw with any settings to accommodate the whims and that somewhat satisfies the masses? If we set singles and handicap targets at 43 mph, doubles at 39 mph must be easier to get at, time wise? When we make a snowball and find it's growing downhill, it's time to grease the ball unless we accept things other than perfect target presentations all the time. Time for even more amendments?

Hap
 

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I'm not suggesting different speeds for different days & conditions, Hap.

What I AM suggesting is launching doubles at the same speed as singles. I fail to see what'd be the unintended consequences of that? .....unless, maybe some trap machines would break too many targets if you cranked the spring up that high?

John C. Saubak
 

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John, I wasn't addressing your post and I agree dbls should be set the same as singles. We've had so many rule changes that require amendments to the original rule to cover unheard of consequences.

The old Winchester hand-sets didn't break too many targets at launch and threw good doubles targets. Pat trap arms don't give the same stabilizing RPMs that the old traps did either? Hence, more amendments needed down the road due to changes to the game/equipment and rules.

Hap
 

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Roger knows of what he speaks. There were no better targets than those off the old WW hand sets with a good kid in the house and a good puller. Different times now, those days are forever gone. Good times, great memories.
 
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