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The truth about energy subsidies – solar gets 436 times more than coal

One of Hillary Clinton’s wackier ideas is to build half a billion solar panels— at taxpayer expense. It would be one of the largest corporate welfare giveaways in American history. The Institute for Energy Research (IER) estimates that the cost of the plan will reach $205 billion. That’s a lot of money to throw at Elon Musk and all of Hillary’s high-powered green energy friends.

By the way, there are only 320 million people in the country so her plan would mean more solar panels than people. If Hillary has her way, the entire landscape in America will be blighted by windmills and solar panels. How is this green?

The economics here are even worse. Back in the 1970s Washington made a big bet on green energy with synthetic fuels and renewable fuels. The programs crashed and were all mercifully killed off during the Reagan years. Billions of dollars went down the drain. George W. Bush made a big bet on switch grass and wood chips to produce energy. President Obama has spent more than $100 billion on wind and solar subsidies. Instead of energy independence, we got bankruptcies like Solyndra.

A lesson of the last several decades is that the government has a horrible record of intervening in energy markets. Mr. Obama was running around the country in his first term warning that America was running out of oil. He wasn’t paying attention to the shale oil and gas revolution and the advent of clean coal technology that overnight doubled our fossil fuel resources. At the very time that natural gas prices were falling to $2 per cubic million feet, the government was trying to force feed the nation on wind and solar power which costs three to five times more per kilowatt hour of electricity.

 

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Go back 10 years and the money went to wind.
Go back 30 years and the money went to nuclear
Go back 60 years and the money went to coal
Go back 100 years and the money was on hydro

Money comes and goes based on special interests needs. Don't knock it, learn how to get involved and take some of it.
 

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Go back 10 years and the money went to wind.
Go back 30 years and the money went to nuclear
Go back 60 years and the money went to coal
Go back 100 years and the money was on hydro

Money comes and goes based on special interests needs. Don't knock it, learn how to get involved and take some of it.
30 years ago it went to biofuels. All the weirdos went around promoting Jerusalem Artichoke and tumbleweed harvesting, Switchgrass and wood chips to alcohol. Nuclear has been dead for 50 years.
 

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I guess as part of this we'll actually start really building the solar panels in the US instead of getting them from Germany and China then.
Wonder if she plans on easing the EPA regulations so it would make more sense to produce them in the US.

The problem as it is now with solar is that it's not worth it with out all the credits you get for installing them. If you take out all the credits and had to flat out purchase the panels, racks, electrical equipment and install it all you would be lucky to break even in 30 years.

I'd love to know how they want to do this and if it would be regional or if they would "waste" money installing these panels in regions where it doesn't make sense just so it's "fair". LOL

How about taking that money and investing it back into safer nuclear power.
 

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I love the idea of clean energy like solar panels. When it came time to invest in panels for the house I thought twice. What happens with all manufactured things is that they improve with time. I thought, what is it going to cost me to get rid of these solar panels in the future? Will they be toxic waste? Should I wait until the panels have been improved or wait for the roof tiles to improve?

If placed on the roof, firemen can't break through the roof to vent the smoke. Decided to wait...
 

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If you want to read some good stuff check out stories on solar panel purchases and install rip offs and power companies still charging solar panel home owners as authorized by the State PUC's. Lots of fraud and cronyism in this stuff.
 

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All under the guise of environmentally friendly renewable energy that does not contribute to "global warming". All of her global buddies will profit and the consumer will suffer.
That's how she will help the middle class? Riiiight!
 

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I guess as part of this we'll actually start really building the solar panels in the US instead of getting them from Germany and China then.
Wonder if she plans on easing the EPA regulations so it would make more sense to produce them in the US.

The problem as it is now with solar is that it's not worth it with out all the credits you get for installing them. If you take out all the credits and had to flat out purchase the panels, racks, electrical equipment and install it all you would be lucky to break even in 30 years.

I'd love to know how they want to do this and if it would be regional or if they would "waste" money installing these panels in regions where it doesn't make sense just so it's "fair". LOL

How about taking that money and investing it back into safer nuclear power.
The panels will never be built here because the subsidies will not finance labor. They will all be built in the typical overseas sweatshops.

You are seriously dreaming if you think you will break even in 30 years. You will have to replace them long before the break even point. The cost of upkeep will prevent the break even point from getting as close as 10 years.
 

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The panels will never be built here because the subsidies will not finance labor. They will all be built in the typical overseas sweatshops.
Yep....so much for the "clean energy jobs of the future" BS....but these idiots seem to eat that crap up.
 

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An overlooked aspect of solar is that it makes power when the sun shines but not when it is dark. Therefore you either have to have a non-solar, non-wind source for the night times. Incidently, the early night times are when people get home from work and kick on the air conditioning, TV, computer, microwave and other electrical power consuming devices. Add in that the longer colder nights of winter, especially in the more northern regions of our country, will also be using this electricity for electric heating, lighting of all types. Your demand goes up when the supply goes down! Yea that is a great way to not only have to pay for the solar but also for the needed power when solar is dark.

For those who say well use battery storage for the dark, gee maybe you can place your order using your new Samsung cell phone. Oh what, you said your brand new phone and the replacement given you as part of the recall both burned up? I hope you were clear of the toxic fumes that those burning chemicals put into the air and/or water. Just wait till you see not only acres of solar but also acres of batteries.

I was waiting for Aloha 1 to check in. The solar palace of Hawaii was having big troubles trying to accommodate the excess power fed back into the grid from their private solar cell arrays when it was light but not being able to supply adequate power when it was dark as i recall reading not that long ago. Maybe Aloha can fill in the details.
 

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Yep....so much for the "clean energy jobs of the future" BS....but these idiots seem to eat that crap up.
Obama promised us all "high paying green jobs" 8 years ago. Where are they?
 
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Oh yeah, I forgot--Shovel ready jobs!!!!!!
 

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Solar Bah! Give you an example. PV system my neighbor just put in and is hooked up to the grid cost him $34.000.00 Piece of crap! Only solar system worth getting is water heating only, as cost is low. and system last 20 years with care. My neighbor was regaling us with his tale of woe regarding his experiance with the PV system.
He was told his system would produce more than enough power for him and his needs, and he'd get a credit each month from HELL-CO (my spelling) our utility co. for his surplus power. This guy has two people living in his home two freezers propane on demand water heater an electric fridge and electric washer and dryer and propane stove. He was crying to me and my other neighbor that he get's a 300.00 plus electric bill each month with his crap 36 paneled roof! LOL It will take thirty plus years to break even and it's likely the POS system won't even last that long (no way in hell here) And he was lucky, it's the outer island as stated earlier by Pyrodek, HECO Oahu) ain't letting nobody on the grid no more. Which means buying deep cycle battery storage system, and distribution system and additional installation cost permits etc. etc and stand by generator (close by neighbors will love you for this)!... which really adds to the total cost. And leave us not forget when crap goes wrong like wind or storm damage, batteries go flat, generator dies, electrical shorts, you pay to fix it all yourself, there will be no calling the utility co. and you better know a lot about electricity if you screw around with that crap yourself cause the system will kill you easy if your stupid. Expect to clean panels of dirt, bird crap, volcanic dust, leaves etc every year to keep it working well. So buy a ladder pal and step lively on that glass covered paneled roof. Don't forget the rainy cloudy days which are many here, will cut system efficiency a lot, so expect cold water if you have electric water heating so get use to ice cold showers . Lot of people off grid here and very few are happy with their system overall. Bottom line is your better off biting the utility companies bullet and pay the 54 cent a KWH and fuel adjustment charges etc etc. if you enjoy internet, cable tv, and hot showers and forget the PV system. P S Nobody I know uses a PV system to heat their home. The few that have heating systems here use hot water heat through the floor an most use wood burning stoves.
Aloha
 

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My parents live in MI and in 1986 they completed the construction of their new house. It is an all concrete construction over 7k sqft and heated and cooled by geothermal. The entire hose has coils in the walls and floors, and after it runs through the house the coils run outside under the walkways and driveway (they are in their 80's now and do not own a shovel as all of the snow melts).

The only need for electricity they need to heat the house is to run the pump motor. The most expensive bill they have ever had was $103 and dad was furious that it went over $100.

When he designed and built the house everybody told him he was crazy and that made him want to do his experiment even more.

There is no way solar would even be considered a feasible alternative in MI. And I will never understand how NJ slid into the top 5 of states based on solar production...it just not make any sense.
 
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