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Discussion Starter #1
Have used 20 ga. Arrizabalaga 20ga. which is giving me 30/70 low patterns a 30 yards. I have added height to comb with wrap around pad. Looking for some suggestions to resolve the issue for the present time. I know that a new stock would be best, but not sure who can perform the work. This is first time I have had a gun product low patterns like this. Thanks for feedback.
 

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You need to make sure that the stock doesn't end up so high it feels odd. It could be that it just plain shoots too low.

Since you have not said what the pattern spread is, 30:70 is meaningless to anybody else . .. . . and probably to you too for that matter anyway. Have you counted the % above and below? If you know the percent why not just give the POI/POA offset in inches? It makes life so much easier, really it does.

Andrew.
 

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1/3 above and 2/3 below, regardless of distance or spread is meaningful enough to me.

Provided those patterns are shot from a benchrest, and provided you're seeing the entire bead, it strongly suggests poorly regulated barrels. Continue with the comb additions until you get to 50/50, then decide whether you could be happy with seeing that much rib. I've only encountered one similar instance in 40 years of tinkering with shotguns. It was a low end SxS and when we finally got it patterning to POA the owner just couldn't tolerate the strange "highway to heaven" sight picture.

If you're shooting from any unrested position, it could be shooter error (dipping the muzzle). In that case, by all means repeat it while resting the forehand on a solid support.
 

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1060, I am not being disrespectful, but ignore the advise you got so far. It sounds to me that you are a trap shooter who is trying to shoot a nice field gun with the same or similar cheek weld you use for trap. If this is the case, STOP right now.

If memory serves, your "rib" (if your model actually has one) is not higher than the barrel contour. So here is what you should try.

Place the equivalent of 2 quarters on the rear of the rib, then mount the gun on your shoulder such that you can just see the bead. Shoot for POI. If you are striking your POA at 13 to 16 yards, drop the butt on your shoulder just a tad so you are shooting not more than 1" high at that range.

You will not be cheeking the stock the same as you would with your trap gun. This is good. You will most likely be indexing somewhere on your lower jaw. It doesn't really matter where, just as long as you are consistent with your mount.

If this does not work, you have barel regulation problems with at least one barrel. You'll have to decide what you want to do about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I am a trap shooter. Patterns with both barrels are hitting in same place with 70 percent of shot below the point of aim. I added pads to comb raise the pattern, but still need to go higher. I have not tried lowering my mount as you suggest. This is something that i will have to try out and get consistant with. I am wanting to use this shotgun for quail hunting in a couple of weeks.
I just never had a gun shoot so low. I haven't measured the drop on the stock yet. I will have to get in some more practice with this type of mount.
Thanks for the advise.
 

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I'm curious to know the technique you used to do your patterning.

I've been getting invloved with more S/S sporting events every year and have had the opportunity to shoot many different guns. I've found that if the gun has a raised rib of any sort (a nice flat plane to look down) the guns generally shot fairly flat, with the exception of a Beretta 425 that shot about 4-6 inches high. I always mounted the gun so that the front bead would lay flat on the rib.

The guns with the concaved top ribs did give me a little problem at first. I would mount those guns the same as I did the raised rib guns and found that I always was shooting too low. I eventually realized that a significant amount of rib need to be seen to get the gun shooting at least 50/50. I could not put the front bead at the top of the receiver. 3 of those guns that I've been able to shoot several times have been a Purdey, Arrietta, and AYA. Resting my head on the comb as I do with my claytarget guns just did not work. The comb need to rest more along my jaw than resting under my cheekbone.

Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #8
This gun has a concave rib. I mounted it as I would normally hold with cheek on the comb, same as I would hold with most guns when shooting a trap target. Pattern was well below POA on target board. when shooting my Grulla,with normal mount, I get a 50-50 pattern. This Arrizabalaga givs me a below POA pattern. i will have to try out low jaw mounts with lots of rib showing and see what it does.
 

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Stonewall, shotguns have to be fitted to the shooter, and bird guns are made to be shot in a quick, dynamic, moving manner. Swinging through the target, almost blocking the target from view. You have to shoot at moving targets from a low gun position to find where it actually shoots. Preferably low gun to high target, simulating game shooting.

The shotgun must be stocked for the shotgunner; target shooting is the only place allowing for an aimed, pre-mounted gun.

There are also different types of fitting depending on the type of game shooting you will do; examples would be decoyed waterfowl vs. driven bird vs. shooting over dogs. All may require different stocking, for best, effortless shooting.

Proper fitting is prerequisite. There is nothing wrong with your gun. Both barrels hitting in the same place shows plenty of care during making. It just doesn't fit, same as shoes that are wrong for your feet. Running in galoshes won't work, same as winter hunting in track shoes.


Many traditional SxS's are built swamped ribs whose purpose is to hold the tubes together only, and will display low impact points if held the manner of a target gun. No aiming please. And stay away from the bench rest.

Proper fitting can be easier at a facility with several pattern plates, or a large enough plate can allow four or five impact points.

Have a friend call out an impact point while you hold a low gun ready position. "Dog-on-point" ready. A laser pointer can be a handy tool for this. Shoot it fast, same as you would shoot a bird on the wing, DO NOT AIM. There maybe some help on Youtube, Gil Ash videos come to mind.

Proper instruction is recommended, and will pay untold dividends in the future. No shortcutting will do. Trapshooters are notoriously ignorant of proper shotgun form, and as the abundance of release triggers will attest, they are aimers.

Best of luck, GAP
 

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Release triggers have nothing to do with aiming
 

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I had a SKB 385 that shot the same pattern. I returned it to the importer twice with their guarantee that it would be sent back to Japan for correction. Twice it was returned to me with the same problem (did the imported actually send it back to Japan?).

It was suggested that the barrels be wedged between two trees and bent, but I decided not to do that. In the end, the only thing that could be done was to raise the comb. I tried it, and it worked, but I hated the thought that this fine shotgun did not pattern as it should.

I believe there is a way that barrels can be professionally adjusted for POI without dismantling, but I don't know how (or who).

Bill
 

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Sure does, semper fi, but they'll never admit to it.

There's another thread of the week about release triggers somewhere on here, chocked full of the usual cures, and usual excuses like crushed fingers, eye dominance issues, mental malady, smoother working, all the pros, dogs without fleas.

We are talking gun fitting over here. Just the same . . .

if there can be no acceptance of cause, there can be no acceptance of cure.

Regards, GAP
 

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If you read articles and books by sidexside experts, they will relate that the nature of the SXS is to shoot low; the barrels actually flex downward during firing. (They said it; not me.)
That being the case, and who am I to argue, you need more comb height. Or else you need to "float" your target more, the advantage being, you can see your target more compeltely.
Mike
 

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SxS's with stock measurements +/- like any other target gun will shoot like any other target gun.

If you want a 2.5" x 3.5" x 15" stock so it will "LOOK RIGHT" it will probably shoot any way but that. SxS pigeon guns look like target guns, not like Limey game guns.

Make the gun fit you for the way you shoot and let the "LOOK RIGHT" people bite it.


JMO of course but my Beretta SxS breaks targets just fine with a fixed up stock

And a number of bunker shooters used to use releases before they were made illegal. Not much aiming going on there. Releases or any other trigger style have nothing to do w/ aiming. I really don't know WTF you're talking about actually.
 

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I can't see how any shotgun can shoot that low if the barrel/s are straight along with the choke area?

The centerline of the breech and the centerline of the choke end says it should shoot at least on, 50/50 since you're looking over the top of the receiver?

I still say you have a Monday gun. Possibly the problem is in the choke area causing it to shoot that low!

HAP
 

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Draw a picture. Put a rib on it. See how many different ways you can make it shoot low. WAY easy to make a gun shoot low if it has any kind of swamped or flat rib.

My Beretta shot about 10/90 and I jacked up the comb just over 1/2" and now it is 50/50 more or less. And there is absolutely nothing wrong w/ the gun.
 

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Go ahead, draw the picture. Put the bead below the top of the barrels and you'll figure out the gun will shoot HIGH. To make the gun shoot LOW, you have to make the bead HIGH.

There is no acceptable sight picture....one where you can see the bead or the end of the muzzle....that will make a gun shoot low. If it starts at 50/50 with bead visible, to make it shoot 2/3 low you'd have to dip the muzzle so you couldn't see the bead.

IME, A gun that shoots lower than dead flat is either A) a faulty gun or B) the shooter is subconsciously dipping the muzzles at the shot....a not uncommon occurrence when taking a deliberately aimed shot. Many who've shot handguns or rifles from the offhand position will have experienced this subconscious "down flinch."

That's why it's imperative to test a shotgun from the bench first....to remove as much human error as possible. You need to be able to distinguish between "where the gun shoots" and "where you shoot the gun."
 
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