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Just got back from competing in a neighboring State's state shoot. Was classified B NR SRVT in Doubles. Shot a 91 in the Championship Doubles event and took Runner Up behind a 94. Got a little All American points pin as an award. The score behind me, 90, was also a B shooter and took NR Class Champion. He won a Cabela's Gift Card worth substantially more than a worthless little pin. The explanation I got was that is the way the ATA rules are written. Why the heck doesn't the ATA allow me an option?? I couldn't care less for ATA AA points as do probably 90% of the shooters that were in attendance. Let the score speak for itself and give the shooter the more valuable award. I really think their rule stinks!! There, I feel better now.
 

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Swampjohn,
You did have an option, not declare a category.
I just turned 65 this year and shot my state shoot as Vet.
I was eligible for champion or my category.
It's just the way it is these days.
 

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o-hale,

When you classified you were eligible for everything, including category and your class. Its not an either-or decision as you make it sound. In Swampjohn's case, the guy with the 90 below him would still have won the Class B NR trophy even if he was a Vet, same as Swamp. The ATA rule stinks. Its not your declaration that eliminates you from Class, its your score. The lower score of two identically classified category shoots can end up winning the Class trophy, while the guy with the higher score can go home empty handed.
 

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Its not your declaration that eliminates you from Class, its your score. The lower score of two identically classified category shoots can end up winning the Class trophy, while the guy with the higher score can go home empty handed.
Seriously?

That sucks out loud and has to be changed ASAP. How can the organization justify that result ever occurring?
 

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The ATA rule book is quite clear concerning this issue. Accomplishments in category (i.e. SubVet, Vet, etc.) are deemed to be more prestigious than those in class. Thus, you can shoot off for champion and fall back into category should you lose the shoot off but you cannot fall back into class if you win/place in your declared category. You made a choice and now are unhappy with the result. Life is hard. Know the rules before you go to a shoot, even though you may disagree with them, and accept the results like a true sportsman. Make your ATA delegate aware of your displeasure as he/she has the authority to bring rule change proposals before the ATA. There, now I feel better.
 

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It almost seems more people are declaring for a special class than none at all.
 

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I also DO NOT like the new ATA rule but, it is what it is. Under the old rules you could have opted to take the class "OR" the Cat. trophy. Now as the ATA sees the Category as them "Higher" trophy, you must accept that one. That being said ,no one here on TS.com can fix or change that. The ONLY thing you can do is try and petition your voting delegate for a vote to return to the old Trophy and fall back rules or do not claim a category. Bear in mind this rule is only REQUIRED for shoots where All American points are issued. All others can apply the trophy/ fall back however they see fit.
 

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870,
No, when I classified as Vet I was no longer eligible for class.
I could win champion and fall back to Vet if my score tied for high gun and I lost shoot off.
When you take a category you give up class and yardage groups.
 

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Slide I agree with everything you said.
I will add if a shoot is big enough to offer All American Points unless you are A class or higher category may not be a wise choice.

To each his own.

Its all good.
 

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I also DO NOT like the new ATA rule but, it is what it is. Under the old rules you could have opted to take the class "OR" the Cat. trophy. Now as the ATA sees the Category as them "Higher" trophy, you must accept that one. That being said ,no one here on TS.com can fix or change that. The ONLY thing you can do is try and petition your voting delegate for a vote to return to the old Trophy and fall back rules or do not claim a category. Bear in mind this rule is only REQUIRED for shoots where All American points are issued. All others can apply the trophy/ fall back however they see fit.
To be accurate, Mike, it needs to be pointed out that this rule is 5 years old, so it's not exactly new.
 

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870,
No, when I classified as Vet I was no longer eligible for class.
I could win champion and fall back to Vet if my score tied for high gun and I lost shoot off.
When you take a category you give up class and yardage groups.
Not true.

A shooter who declared a category and whose score does not qualify them for Champion or any category trophy may win or shoot off for a place, class or yardage group trophy.

Section X, D, 5:

Any special category shooter whose score does not qualify for a trophy in his/her category, may compete for place, class or yardage group trophies. Once any declarations have been made either by a shooter or shoot management, the declaration is final and cannot be changed. There shall be no exception to this rule.
 

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V10 and 870,
I looked at rule book again and you are both correct but I have not seen it happen yet.
If the score does not win category there are usually higher scores competing for class/yardage.
I'm sure it has happened but not that I have noticed.
You will agree that on some caps scores you have seen a lower score finish 2nd, 3rd, etc because of declared catergories.
I am allowed to read the rule book, thanks
 
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