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perga1, I won't comment on the kook and whiner aspect, but I'd be willing to bet that there are a small percentage of ATA shooters that read this site and even fewer that post. The posts here are not representative of any reasonably accurate cross section of ATA shooters.
 

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Quick comments:

1) Why should you care if a person refuses a reduction? If it doesn’t bother the person why should it bother you?

2) What percentage of shooters refuse a reduction?

3) How many shooters will ever get a punch if 98 is the minimum for a punch?

4) Why would you allow a person the opportunity to sandbag his or her way to the 17 yds line only to win big money shoots? Isn’t that a bigger black-eye to the game?

5) What about a person who only shoots at local shoots with less than 50 shooters so he/she never gets a punch from the 20 yd line but has a 96 average? How many All-Americans have a 96 average in handicaps?

6) Many state teams use handicap averages in the calculation of overall averages. Would it be fair for people to build up their handicap averages at local shoots without any fear of getting punched so they could improve their average for the state team?

7) I do think that the rule stating that the highest score at a local shoot with at least 15 shooters should get a punch should be junked. I got a punch for a 90 at a local shoots, which I think was ridiculous. It should be at least 95 and above.
 

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Jim_knee, I am only relaying what I overheard not the accuracy or inaccuracy of it. My own personal opinion is they are partley correct. We here on TS.com are not reflective of the rank and file, I think we are more dedicated but it is hard to coninue that way with no help from the BoD. JRM
 

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FlaLagarto


I'm getting the impression that high scores are regional with the higher scores being shot in the west.


Example.


At the western zone shoot ( which is a telephonic shoot) 3 years ago, we had approximatley 20 squads that shot 4 handicaps over 4 days.


I broke handicap scores of 94, 97, 98 and 99. The 99 was the only score I shot where I was high man on our squad.


High scores (97 and above) in the west during the summer are the norm not the exception.


Jerry Hauser
 

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Flalagarto should start a separate thread asking the question about high handicap scores at your club. You'll find high scores are regional till warm weather settles in the Northern states and summer winds deminish in other locations.
 

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Here's what I?ve learned so far:

1-The best 27 yd shooters are winning too much and ruining the sport of trapshooting.

2-The best 27 yd shooters have paid their dues and should win more.

3-We need to make the target harder so it will be more difficult to break a good score from the 27.

4-Making the target harder would only hurt the avg shooter and have no affect on the 27 yd pro.

5-Earning yardage is an honor.

6-Earning yardage is a punishment.

7-Phil Kiner prefers Kotex brand over Care Free.

8-We should have mandatory reductions.

9-Mandatory reductions would reduce participation.

10-Punch for scores.

11-Don't punch for scores.

There, that was simple. Problem solved. What should we talk about next? Mid east peace?

If I were Trapshooting dictator for a day I would:

1-Throw more difficult targets. Period. Higher/faster/wider doesn't matter. Just more difficult. The 85avg 27 yd shooters will need to take that reduction or live with an even lower avg. I hope their ego can take it. The people who prefer perfect scores should take up skeet.

2-Stop moving people back so fast. Most can't handle it. They may want to, but it's not good for them or the sport. Give fewer punches and why not ¼ yard punches? You can still brag about having your card punched but you're not going back as fast.

3- hire all the trap help from the local strip club (my favorite)

I have no opinion on Kotex vs Care Free.

fd
 

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oleolliedawg- I know most of the BOD and all of the EC members. They use computers on a regular basis. Many read this site but few make posts.

Pat Ireland
 

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Pat, that was obviously a "tongue in cheek" comment. If that's what it takes to draw some comment from the "powers in charge" then it is well worth it. The ship is floundering and this is not the time te re-arrange the chairs!!
 

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Bob Lawless, I'm not calling for a dictator at the top of the ATA, or someone who has absolute free reign to do what they want. I do think we need a paid professional at the top, and I think we need a paid staff who's sole purpose is to communicate the concerns and needs of the rank and file to the President and EC so improvements or changes can be made as needed. The sport has a dark road ahead of it the next five to ten years. You can't be screwing around for three years trying to implement changes that you hope will strengthen and save the sport when you need those changes NOW.

The ATA needs to put itself ahead of the curve, not behind it.

~Michael
 

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frank drebin Mr. Drebin that was an excellent post with a true representation of the way that this subject is going. That is excellent right up until you made this statement.

"1-Throw more difficult targets. Period. Higher/faster/wider doesn't matter. Just more difficult. The 85avg 27 yd shooters will need to take that reduction or live with an even lower avg. I hope their ego can take it. The people who prefer perfect scores should take up skeet."

The discussion was about "fixing" the Handicap system AKA making it harder for the 27 yd shooters to win.(this is the perceived problem the 27 yarders are dominating the Handicap)Making the targets more difficult may lower the 27 yd shooters scores but if they also lower everyone else's scores the perceived problem will stay the same only the scores will be lower.

"2-Stop moving people back so fast. Most can't handle it. They may want to, but it's not good for them or the sport. Give fewer punches and why not ¼ yard punches? You can still brag about having your card punched but you're not going back as fast."

Interesting statement the perceived problem(27yd domination)has really only been a problem the last few years.(since the average 27yd shooter has realized that they can no longer compete with their colleagues at 27)The rate at which shooter moved toward the 27 has been the same right along as far as in relation to advances for a win or score. Why is it a problem now? Just because the 27 yd shooters say so?

3 You won't get an argurment from me on this one...LOL I do believe you will get one from some people.

Bob Lawless
 

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To the best of my Knowledge the higher scores and more of them is attributed to 2 things, and these 2 things need to be taken care of NOW.

#1- Go back to 1200fps shells, and this includes 1 ounce loads.

#2- Go back to the 3 hole target.

And my ststement make mandatory yardage reductions, MANDATORY NO EXCEPTIONS




Gary Bryant
Dr.longshot
 

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To the best of my Knowledge the higher scores and more of them is attributed to 2 things, and these 2 things need to be taken care of NOW.

#1- Go back to 1200fps shells, and this includes 1 ounce loads.

#2- Go back to the 3 hole target.

And my ststement make mandatory yardage reductions, MANDATORY NO EXCEPTIONS




Gary Bryant
Dr.longshot
 

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Dr.Longshot is this your opinion or the facts and if it is the facts where did you acquire these facts?

Bob Lawless
 

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No!!! and he doesn't lie like certain people that will remain nameless.

Bob Lawless
 

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All this talk about moving marginal 27 yd. shooters forward against their will comes from shooters who read about the fence in a book!!
 

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Something that has always bothered me is the practice of coding a shooter. It seems to me that all the CHC/EC is trying to accomplish here is to take the shooter out of the competition which is something they often accomplish. Take a shooter who performs above their normal ability and shoots a score good enough to get a punch for 1.5 yards and moves from the 23.5 to the 25 and is coded. That shooter must now compete for 2 years from the new yardage where they may have never been before. If the code is required or assigned by the CHC/EC shouldn't it be from the yardage where the abnormal score was shot and not the new yardage where the shooter may have never been before or may have demonstrated and inability to cpmpete at the new distance? Just looking for other opinions on this because it just doesn't make sense to me. Yes. I have experienced this. JRM
 

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Here's the deal. I have discontinued shooting "registered" targets because of exactly what has gone on in this thread. If I had wanted controversy, I would have called a church board meeting. The quickest way to get folks to leave the church is to start a stink fight. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong. It matters that the infighting happens. There will always be those who get around the system. Just see the bird and shoot the bird. Enjoy your companion shooters and go from there. Squibb
 
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