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Phil has some good ideas here and its great that he's willing to try and get something done unlike a lot of people that just sit and let the same thing happen year after year. And, this discussion has brought out some other good ideas too.

But, will any of the current rules change?

Not in a timely manner the way the current ATA is set up, and MIA just touched on it.

Everybody here has to understand that YOUR State delegates meet ONCE A YEAR!! And that meeting lasts maybe 5 hours and covers many items on the agenda. They might get "information" by email or telephone calls throughout the year or, read about the issues on T.S.com and we all know what kind of BS gets thrown around on here. Some of Phil's issues were brought to the floor at the 2008 Grand where the ONCE A YEAR meeting is held and YOUR delegates had a few minutes to make a decision and vote on it. Thats if they even had an interest in what was being presented.

Neil has stated that its taken him 3 years to get something done or changed and thats the reason why.

The only way anything is going to get done is not by blowing off steam on here. You will have to contact YOUR state delegate and get them to take a stance. If they agree with you.

Sportshot, you can repeat 1 oz. a thousand times on here and it ain't gonna do squat. Any of you that beleive that changes should be done will have to start calling YOUR state delegate and have your shooting buddies call them too so when they go to their ONCE A YEAR meeting something MIGHT get done.

Jim Walkowiak
 

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Speed the targets up,slow the shells down,1250fps is only an advantage to longer yarder shooters and probably lowers the scores of new shooters who are getting the piss beat out of them and don't realize it.Good shooters can break just as many targets from the 27 yd.line with 1 oz.load,(I think AA 1oz,HDCP loads are 1290 fps.and ATA legal,correct me if I am wrong.)I think speed is more of an advantage especially in the wind. Jerry
 

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Jim Walkowiak wrote:

"Any of you that beleive that changes should be done will have to start calling YOUR state delegate and have your shooting buddies call them too so when they go to their ONCE A YEAR meeting something MIGHT get done."

Isn't it about time the ATA changes the way it does business and communicates with it's members? It shouldn't take three years to implement a change, and we shouldn't have to harass our state delegates. There should be a suggestion form on the ATA's website where you give your name, member #, what state you live in, and a blank with space for 200 or 300 words to let them know what your concerns are. From the ATA it filters down to the appropriate states. After they've gotten responses and are able to see what the membership is concerned about, the ATA should be able to come up with possible solutions and put polls in regard to those solutions on their website. Again, you give your name and membership # to be able to respond to the poll, and can only reply once. Sure, it will take some time and cost some money, but how can you begin to cater to your membership and respond to their concerns if don't know what's really on their minds? Now when you have your once a year meetings, issues can be brought up, you'll know what is importanta, you'll have data showing what members think, and action can be taken that year rather than dragging it out over three or four more meetings.

~Michael
 

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Slick13

"There should be a suggestion form on the ATA's website where you give your name, member #, what state you live in, and a blank with space for 200 or 300 words to let them know what your concerns are. From the ATA it filters down to the appropriate states."

Michael don't you think it should be the opposite? The form should be made available at the state level. If the state association likes an idea they can then instruct their state delegate to support the proposal.

You want to put more on who, to do the work involved in your proposal? I am not sure that it would be a good idea to try to find people/person to do this unless you are going to make it a permanent position.

Paid or unpaid if unpaid who will volunteer to take on such a project? After all if there is as much whining in the suggestion forms as on this site you would need an entire team to sort and evaluate the form.

Don't get me wrong I think it might be a good idea just by state instead of by The entire association.

Bob Lawless
 

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I think it should be a paid position, with more than one person being employeed to handle it, and that it should be an ongoing permanant job. In the ATA minutes in regard to the number of targets being down, the ATA's response was "we cannot control the cost of lead, fuel or the current economic state of the Country, but we can attempt to market our product (trapshooting) with a renewed effort towards creating interest in enticing our present members to visit their local gun clubs to continue shooting and enjoying our sport". So, how does the ATA do that? How do they market themselves, and our sport? Showing your members that you listen, care about what they have to say, and addressing their concerns is the best marketing I can think of. Making them go through a delegate and hoping that the delegate will stand up for them basically tells the membership "we really don't give a shit what you think". To be successful, know what the membership wants, and to be able to market to them, you have to deal with them as directly as possible.

~Michael
 

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Slick is right we need a paid manager . The Amateur in Amateur Trapshooting ASS. is saying it all . How can anyone in office for a year get anything done and only one real meeting to do it . This is not 1920 anymore . This organization need a full time boss with the power to get us up to speed . It would save -make the ATA money if it was run like a business and not a good-old-boys club .
 

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I know the purests like Pat and BigDon and others aren't going to like this but trapshooting is a money game. When I started shooting registered Trap Skeet was declining and most believed it was because to experience Skeet to the fullest you had to shoot all 4 gauges. That was/is expensive. Also, there was very little money to be won. Trap at that time was 3 hole equivalent and a guy could lay down his $25 including the Lewis and go home with enough money to pay for the day and part of the next shoot. At the next shoot he would play the Lewis and for another $10 the 25's. Very often the 25's hit with a 24 and 23 for the second money. If it was a windy day an average shooter would rub their hands together and maybe play the 50's and the purse and have a chance at some real money because the wind and 3 hole targets made it more difficult for the 26/27 yard shooters. Then perfect scores became the norm and the money disappeared and so did a lot of the shooters who would go out hoping to win a few bucks and pay for this weeks shooting and therefore, be able to afford to shoot again at the next registered shoot. I remember winning $1,200 for third in a Calcutta with a 96 back when the straight away from 1 and 5 was the norm. So say all you want about shooting for satisfaction, pride, love of the game or whatever but the guy who used to have a chance at SOME payoff in the 80's is gone and won't come back until there is a chance for them to SHARE in the money again. Many of those referred to as the Pro's have been heard saying if you are going to get a yard you should get paid for it. One in particular used to say a yard is worth $ 1,000, but that was years ago when there was money in the game. OK PI, lock and load.JRM
 

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JRM, you need to wake up.....and smell the gunpowder.

TRAPSHOOTING WAS A MONEY GAME. IT ISN'T ANYMORE!!!

Shooters aren't playing the options because they have a hard enough time to scrape up the coin just to go shooting. It's hard to get a big percentage of people at any shoot just to play the lewis class and thats because they've been burned way too many times. Play a $10.00 lewis option and get back $6.50. WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT MORE THAN A COUPLE TIMES?

Maybe, just maybe, if Phil gets his ideas put into place or something happens where the same shooters don't always walk away with the money people MIGHT start playing the options again.

Like someone said, you'd be better off getting in a card game between events if you're looking to leave the shoot with more than you had when you got there.

Jim W
 

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Yep, it isn't 1920 anymore, and you can't get away with meeting once a year and a lot of volunteers. The ATA is a business, and as members, it is OUR business. We need someone solidly at the top that we can count on being there four or five years and taking immediate action when needed for the benefit of the sport.

~Michael
 

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Slick13 so you believe that one person should decide policy and rules for the ATA.

A person I might add that may have reasons to not make the best decisions for the good of the ATA.

Or one that knows nothing about shooting trap to begin with.

Bob Lawless
 

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People keep referring to "perfection" to win ..

I would like to see some post of just how many scores of 97 or higher have been shot at your local club each year. (not your state shoot or grand)

I have been helping run the registered shoots at the Sarasota Gun Club in Florida for about 2 years.. I can remember one score of 97.. and it was short yardage. To the best of my recollection the highest score from the 27 has been a 95.

HOW ABOUT IT.. post your clubs name and how many scores 97+ from the 27..

Jerry B.
 

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What about the issue of fun. Its more fun to shoot harder targets. Shooting soft targets is boring. Having to shoot 100s to get into a shoot off is tedious as well. Harder targets make the game better.
 

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perga1 is spot on when describing the current and past state of Trapshooting. Although the price of options is the same now as it was in the 70's and my salary was probably around $10/hr we always found a way to play the money. Hustling a few bucks in Handicap on the 25's or a Lewis kept me in the game for the next shoot. I'll never forget the time I earned $81 for a 25 straight at a small shoot many years ago.

Please don't tell me that gambling is no longer popular. We're building brand new casinos in PA at this moment. Trap has always been a competetive game with money added. It is a fact that some shooters have always been afraid to play any options at a shoot regardless of financial ability-I call them professional practice shooters or trinketeers. Please do not confuse them with shooters who like to gamble!!
 

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Between the now fabled "Blog" posts and this present thread, there have been alot of assumptions! Things were better when we had this or better when we done thst a certain way to no that won't work anymore... What we need is fact not fiction with regards to possible help not only to retain members but actually build membership... Columbus took a chance and it might just be damn time that the ATA powers took one and instead of hoping to just hold_on and maybe everything will just work itself out, we better try somethings and see if its going to work.....
 

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Rick I think your right . I have a very good club 22 miles from my house that is owned and run by a trap shooter . This Club throws good targets starts on time has good food and is clean . I don,t miss a Registerd shoot at this club . This club shoots registed on Wednesday after noons all summer plus his Saturday and Sunday programs and two Marathons a year . If every club and the ATA was run like this club we would not have a problem .
 

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I wonder if the delegates read TS.com? You know all their emails are listed on the ATA website and just maybe an email campaign is in order to get their attention. It seems most of us and most people I talk to want to change something and most want harder targets.
 

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I overheard a few of the delegates talking one night at the shoot-offs at one of the last shoots at Vandalia saying the folks on T.S.Com were a bunch of kooks and whiners and did not represent the rank and file of the ATA. With the exception of a few I seriously doubt their attitudes have changed. JRM
 
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